Because rifleman is so cost-ineffective unit
Soviet and UKF have cost-effrctive long range unit but USF dont have it
And USF have few commander choice
Without priest and m1919, USF is just trash in team game
Exactly. |
In Anniversary classic tournament the USF was worse and had zero wins.
In the 2vs2 Masters Cup was a similar situation. I do not know the exact statistics, we are waiting for it from the organizers. But the closer the tournament approached the final, the less we saw the usf. Why so? After all, everyone yells about Jackson, Scott, and Pack Howitzer.
Why didn’t anyone choose the USF in the final? |
Firstly, no, you don't need the moving accuracy. The M36 already has range and speed, those two things combined should be enough when well micro'd. The moving accuracy just means the USF player needs to do even less, since there's no need to stop to fire accurately.
Secondly, 260 armor vs. 220 pen at maximum range gives a 84.6% ((260/220)x100=84.6) chance to penetrate; that's really good. The munitions cost, vet requirement, etc. for HVAP isn't really worth it, imo. Even with Panther's vet, you're looking at 77% chance to penetrate.
Thirdly, like I said above, it's pretty clear that frontal attacks aren't designed to work vs. JTs, as your best case is a 57.1% chance to do any damage.
And of course, lastly, cover your tanks with infantry - that's the point of combined arms. Volks are good, but not better than double BAR riflemen, or M1919 Paras, etc. Also the Raketten has a pretty good chance to hit the ground anyway, and has pretty short range. Unless the OKW player is massing them, they're not a huge risk.
Also of note, your chart in your OP is missing moving accuracy and speed, two stats that are critical to its strength, as well as the pretty significant cost differences, differences in population, and the USF's ability to decrew their vehicles, allowing for a bunch of interesting gameplay mechanics.
Again subjective opinion. I don't need your advice, I can give you advice against Jackson too.
Moving accuracy is a must. Jackson cannot stand against panther and tigers, it has 100% less armor and 50% health. Jackson must always be on the move in order to survive. I remind you of this many times. |
You missed moving accuracy in your OP, but you did at least acknowledge later, but you're still missing:
Top speed/acceleration
Price difference
Pop difference
USF Vehicle crew bonuses/tricks (self repair, getting out to force target changes, exceeding popcap, etc.)
Also, I pretty extensively showed the issues with the M36 further up the page.
What bonuses are we talking about? Again about the HVAP, aren't you tired? But I'm tired
Panther on average is better in other respects.
Speed - 6.6 | Acceleration - 2.4 (3.1 vet3) | Rotate 30 (36 vet3) | Accuracy far: 0.35 | (0.44 vet5) | Reload duration 5.2 - 5.6 (3.64 - 3.92 vet3) (2.55 - 2.74 vet5)
Jackson:
Speed - 6.5 Acceleration - 3 | Rotate 30 | Accuracy far: 0.35 (0.46 vet3) Reload duration 4.38 - 4.97 (2.98 - 3.38 vet3)
At 1-3 vets, Jackson's penetration increase significantly. But this is still not enough against Jagdtiger. But the panther also gets more armor. Sherman E8 (Rifle Company) did not just penetrate Panther vet1 (Standart Army) many times. And again, Jackson was needed.
The price difference I have already wrote (1 page). And this is ridiculous compared to the difference in armor and health.
Excuse me. If I messed up the numbers, you can correct it. |
But it is, you need to open your point of view, not simply show it.
Did you compared those "objective" values that show Jacksons overperforming? No, you just showed jacksons as mini panthers, wich is wrong by definition, both tanks are different, role and design wise. Therefore there is no productive comparation unless you take ALL the details.
I showed the numbers, skipped only one point related to accuracy in movement. At the expense of magical HPAV, I also explained. Objectively, there can be no complaints against Jackson when you have the Panther and the Tigers. And you just brought your subjective opinion, for example, "panthers should be more than enough to take out allied heavies reliably and effectively, with doesnt happen."
No, its happen. I dont agree. Panthers easily destroy usf medium and even "heavy" pershing tank. Panthers can push your line, destroy your tanks and go back. This because of high armor and health. Jacksons can't this. They will be quickly destroyed. Especially when an hidden Raketenwerfer is ambushed. With such a massive offensive, armor and health already play a role, and not the accuracy of movement. What was demonstrated at the 2v2 masters cup.
We can debate for a very long time. Therefore, I gave the numbers and percentages.
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Nerf Panther and buff jackson.
Add penetration so it doesnt need to flank heavy tank destroyers. Maybe add a HE shell too because its AI is so bad compared too stug/panthers MGs
60 sightrange would be good too. Afterall its an open top vehicle
Who asked the nerf panther here? |
but why ? u have also Paks and mines and u can equip all inf with zooks and offmap if u want too.
maybe u just have to develop a combiend arms tactic.
And not the standart infs spam into Jacksons ...where 0 micro is required.
in 1v1 and 2v2 u just NEVER see a JT or an Elefant.
U see only panthers in axis lategame because it is the only stock Tank that is not useless when it hits the field.
That is, the axis player can play with heavy tanks, and the USF player must defend with mines and a paks with the worst penetration? It also requires munition costs to increase penetration. Yes, you want an easy game too.
"in 1v1 and 2v2 u just NEVER see a JT or an Elefant" - lie. |
Like I said, the problem isn't the damage, it's the combination of mobility, moving accuracy far above every other tank as well as range. With those things combined it basically makes any and all axis armor irrelevant when well controlled.
Yea, and you can jump out to force the axis tanks to re-target when low on HP.
Like I said, the moving accuracy and range it's necessary against Panther, because Panther have 100% more armor +10% vet, and 50% more health. HVAP necessary against King/Jagd Tigers. Or do you want the USF to always take risks by going to the rear of tanks that have more armor/health? When all volksgrenadiers have a faust. As well as a disguised raketenwerfer 43, which is always in ambush. You want an easy game man. |
Ignore the JT's front armor stat. It's just there to make it seem like an indestructable bunker. The way to beat JTs has always been flanking (look at the rear armor stat), immobilization, and off-map. Remember that it's incredibly slow, even with the upgrade, even slower to turn, and has no turret. It's also basically useless vs. infantry.
It's almost the same thing for KTs, except that it has some decent AI power and a turret; but it loses that insane frontal armor, range, and AT power for it.
Really, you don't need M36s for any of those. Each of those can be beaten easily by a few well controlled Easy8s, with the additional bonus of having good AI power. Also, the KT/JT are both 720mp/280f units, limited to one at a time, and (for the JT) locked to a doctrine - they're going to be pretty strong.
Like I said, the problem isn't the damage, it's the combination of mobility, moving accuracy far above every other tank as well as range. With those things combined it basically makes any and all axis armor irrelevant when well controlled.
Yea, and you can jump out to force the axis tanks to re-target when low on HP.
Ignore the moving accuracy. It's just there to make it seem like an Panther with half health and -100 % armor. Remember that it's have low armor. It can destroy even Puma. |
I specifically made this picture, brought the numbers and percentages, so that it would be clear to every dissatisfied axis player that Jackson is not subject to any discussion. All for objectivity. M36 is the only measure against heavy axis tanks. |