MG42, Bren, & M1911 LMG, & DP-28 comparison?
27 Sep 2015, 23:01 PM
#21
Posts: 4928
He's probably using them like Obers and not satisfied with the results.
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27 Sep 2015, 23:07 PM
#22
Posts: 1122
Could you elaborate more on why IS are bad?
Because it impossible to play with them defensively, where they only strong. Brits design implies that enemies are forced to come on them, but in reality it exactly opposite with emplacements not doing their job, and axis factions having superior indirect fire.
So, every attempt to stay in cover or in house against mortar shelling ends poorly every time.
He's probably using them like Obers and not satisfied with the results.
I use them as medics.
27 Sep 2015, 23:08 PM
#23
4 Posts: 1194 | Subs: 1
That IS are terrible infantry, basically nothing more than overpriced ostruppen.
Yeah, it possible to pour 120muni into IS to make them super good in cover. But, if you play against decent opponents, they will never give you chance to stay in cover and utilize that firepower with various indirect fire, grenades and straight up blobbing. So useless out of cover unit becomes slightly less useless out of cover unit with 120 muni spent on it. Great.
Meanwhile it possible to upgrade sappers with brens to make them perform same job cost efficiently, or use snipers and commandos to save ammunition for mines and arty strikes. And actually have manpower until sniper is lost by a mistake.
What a hard choice to make.
I'll have to disagree with you there. IS are great infantry. Even with base rifles they do great vs. other squads. The only real issue they have is the fact that they get too big of a penalty out of cover, making offensive actions nigh impossible.
Sappers are quite good, and heavy engineers are amazing, but that is more the result of weapon racks allowing you to put lmgs (the most efficient weapon upgrade) on any unit.
The only change IS need is a lessening of the penalty for being out of cover. This will help fix many of the issues brits have with countering enemy light artillery.
28 Sep 2015, 22:45 PM
#24
Posts: 503
Magnificence of being wiped by 1 grenade and 1 mortar shell?
No thx, i will stick to sappers, snipers, vickers and commandos, this way it possible to have some manpower.
Aim strong put on a show with the British all weekend and did it all weekend and did it without without crocodile and banned vanguard commander. He always built at least two total infantry sections for a total of three. They seemed pretty durable and he never even gave them upgrades which I question but he was still getting squads to vet three by late game so they did damage. The double snipers in finals by DEVM did exploit sections but it's hard to say that's the main factor considering Armstrong counter sniped him 2x and used commandos to wipe a host of snipers.
28 Sep 2015, 22:47 PM
#25
Posts: 503
I'll have to disagree with you there. IS are great infantry. Even with base rifles they do great vs. other squads. The only real issue they have is the fact that they get too big of a penalty out of cover, making offensive actions nigh impossible.
Sappers are quite good, and heavy engineers are amazing, but that is more the result of weapon racks allowing you to put lmgs (the most efficient weapon upgrade) on any unit.
The only change IS need is a lessening of the penalty for being out of cover. This will help fix many of the issues brits have with countering enemy light artillery.
+1 from your lips to Relic's ears
29 Sep 2015, 00:43 AM
#26
Posts: 1930
Aim strong put on a show with the British all weekend and did it all weekend and did it without without crocodile and banned vanguard commander. He always built at least two total infantry sections for a total of three. They seemed pretty durable and he never even gave them upgrades which I question but he was still getting squads to vet three by late game so they did damage. The double snipers in finals by DEVM did exploit sections but it's hard to say that's the main factor considering Armstrong counter sniped him 2x and used commandos to wipe a host of snipers.
aimstrong's strategy was holding on with his tommies until he can get the centaur and commandos going.
If they are going to be nerfed, the tommies are going to need a buff.
I'll have to disagree with you there. IS are great infantry. Even with base rifles they do great vs. other squads. The only real issue they have is the fact that they get too big of a penalty out of cover, making offensive actions nigh impossible.
Sappers are quite good, and heavy engineers are amazing, but that is more the result of weapon racks allowing you to put lmgs (the most efficient weapon upgrade) on any unit.
The only change IS need is a lessening of the penalty for being out of cover. This will help fix many of the issues brits have with countering enemy light artillery.
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1zWvP-tmqoCN3fJey9-WPX9VBJzmMoS_E90VrvgsA3Uw/edit#gid=0
http://www.coh2-stats.com/small_arms/grenadier_kar_98k_rifle_mp
http://www.coh2-stats.com/small_arms/grenadier_mg42lmg_mp
The lee enfield itself is good but not that amazing. It's got better long range DPS than the grenadier but worst dps up close.
the out of cover penalty on the lee enfield is pretty minor. The far bigger penalty is actually the 75% accuracy penalty on the moving.
The cover mechanic is mainly for the bren, but even in cover the bren is inferior to the lmg42.
I don't think aimstrong brought a single bren or piat in any of his game.
29 Sep 2015, 14:53 PM
#27
Posts: 503
aimstrong's strategy was holding on with his tommies until he can get the centaur and commandos going.
If they are going to be nerfed, the tommies are going to need a buff.
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1zWvP-tmqoCN3fJey9-WPX9VBJzmMoS_E90VrvgsA3Uw/edit#gid=0
http://www.coh2-stats.com/small_arms/grenadier_kar_98k_rifle_mp
http://www.coh2-stats.com/small_arms/grenadier_mg42lmg_mp
The lee enfield itself is good but not that amazing. It's got better long range DPS than the grenadier but worst dps up close.
the out of cover penalty on the lee enfield is pretty minor. The far bigger penalty is actually the 75% accuracy penalty on the moving.
The cover mechanic is mainly for the bren, but even in cover the bren is inferior to the lmg42.
I don't think aimstrong brought a single bren or piat in any of his game.
I'm fine with pairing an IS buff to a centaur nerf...would also like to see an AEC buff since nobody bought the thing the entire OCF tournament in the games I watched.
And you are correct, Aimstrong never even bought a weapon rack the entire time.
29 Sep 2015, 21:06 PM
#28
Posts: 1930
would also like to see an AEC buff since nobody bought the thing the entire OCF tournament in the games I watched.
just give the AEC 50 range with price to match. Right now it's basically a puma with clipped range.
29 Sep 2015, 21:08 PM
#29
Posts: 1653
IS in cover are just retardedly strong. Is just way too hard to fight them of at the start as axis...
29 Sep 2015, 23:18 PM
#30
Posts: 503
just give the AEC 50 range with price to match. Right now it's basically a puma with clipped range.
It shouldn't be a carbon copy of the Puma though. Units and factions lose their flavor if they just become the exact same as another army's unit. Puma (at least for Ost) is doctrinal only so it should be a little better or cheaper for similar performance.
29 Sep 2015, 23:36 PM
#31
Posts: 4928
What I find weird is that Relic went ahead and added the AEC Mk III with the QF 75 mm gun, same as the Cromwell Tank. But they didn't give it anywhere near the AI or AT performance, so why didn't they just make it an AEC Mk II?
Anyway, they should just improve the AI performance, that's the reason the QF 75mm was invented after all, because it had a better HE round than the 6 Pounder it was created from.
Anyway, they should just improve the AI performance, that's the reason the QF 75mm was invented after all, because it had a better HE round than the 6 Pounder it was created from.
all you filthy hotchkiss lovers need to l2p #TeamPanzerIII
> Kriegsbeute Doctrine|Partisan Rework|British Infantry Rework|Soviet Assault Squad <
30 Sep 2015, 00:15 AM
#32
Posts: 1930
It shouldn't be a carbon copy of the Puma though. Units and factions lose their flavor if they just become the exact same as another army's unit. Puma (at least for Ost) is doctrinal only so it should be a little better or cheaper for similar performance.
What I find weird is that Relic went ahead and added the AEC Mk III with the QF 75 mm gun, same as the Cromwell Tank. But they didn't give it anywhere near the AI or AT performance, so why didn't they just make it an AEC Mk II?
Anyway, they should just improve the AI performance, that's the reason the QF 75mm was invented after all, because it had a better HE round than the 6 Pounder it was created from.
the british's early weakness is the lack of AT snare, and their PIAT can't hit moving target.
AEC needs to be more similar to Puma to cover up that weakness. It's basically a choice between the bofor or the AEC to cover your troops against an early tank or vehicle.
and I would rather not having to face an early Anti-infantry vehicle as Wehr.
30 Sep 2015, 03:12 AM
#33
Posts: 165 | Subs: 2
What I find weird is that Relic went ahead and added the AEC Mk III with the QF 75 mm gun, same as the Cromwell Tank. But they didn't give it anywhere near the AI or AT performance, so why didn't they just make it an AEC Mk II?
Anyway, they should just improve the AI performance, that's the reason the QF 75mm was invented after all, because it had a better HE round than the 6 Pounder it was created from.
Another idea, if early anti-light vehicle AT is called for: Daimler I armoured car, instead of the AEC III.
It'd be cheaper than the Puma, but it's 2 pounder is totally capable of penetrating every other light vehicle and light tank out there. Also would have a higher rate of fire, so not that bad against troops. Give it a Little John adapter as a munitions upgrade, and it can achieve the same penetration as the Puma but at the cost of losing it's AI capability (they never made an HE shell for the adapter).
30 Sep 2015, 06:53 AM
#34
Posts: 503
Another idea, if early anti-light vehicle AT is called for: Daimler I armoured car, instead of the AEC III.
It'd be cheaper than the Puma, but it's 2 pounder is totally capable of penetrating every other light vehicle and light tank out there. Also would have a higher rate of fire, so not that bad against troops. Give it a Little John adapter as a munitions upgrade, and it can achieve the same penetration as the Puma but at the cost of losing it's AI capability (they never made an HE shell for the adapter).
That would be cool. The AC two pounder could be like Puma in vCOH, either keep the stock main gun for AI but very little anti vehicle ability or spend munitions to give it anti vehicle role.
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