M5 Quadrush
![avatar of Qvazar](/uploads/avatar/86.jpg?updated=1378136466)
Posts: 881
Maybe up its DPS through vet for lategame potential.
![avatar of Iron Emperor](/uploads/avatar/9775.jpg?updated=1431089651)
Posts: 1653
![:( :(](/images/Smileys/sad.gif)
![avatar of Mr. Someguy](/images/avatars/policefusilier.png?updated=1428069587)
Posts: 4928
I'd love a Panzer III Ausf. M, although a Panzer III Ausf. N would be more historically accurate.
Model M is sexier though
Speaking of this, there are actually files for a Panzer III, exact model isn't clear but it was at least a Model L as the gun is named panzer_iii_50mm_mp.xml. Stat-wise, it seems it was intended to be a counterpart to the T-70. Possibly dropped because Relic couldn't spare the resources to make it, it uses the Panzer IV Ausf. F1 model and is not functional as a unit, although if spawned it will shoot at enemies.
![avatar of ElSlayer](/uploads/avatar/10861.jpg?updated=1436977395)
Posts: 1605 | Subs: 1
That thing is so fucking good. Especially with snipers, which help to take out PSchrekked PGrens and Paks.
Lowering damage won't help much, because 360 noscope long range AoE suppression will counter any infantry play anyway.
I think that locking upgrade behind T4 is the only option. Though I fear that it will repeat fate of Wehrmach Flamer Halftrack, despite it have no need to get into grenade range to shoot.
Personally, I'd better plant 4 mines in late game.
EDIT: I have to add that I never faced EARLY Pak. Opponents always tried to rush Puma/Panther or Ostwind/Pz.IV.
![avatar of Maschinengewehr](/images/no_av.png)
Posts: 334
30 to 55 is a big nerf, maybe a smaller one
45-50 fuel? It's not really a nerf, more of a timing adjustment.
![avatar of Maschinengewehr](/images/no_av.png)
Posts: 334
Speaking of this, there are actually files for a Panzer III, exact model isn't clear but it was at least a Model L as the gun is named panzer_iii_50mm_mp.xml. Stat-wise, it seems it was intended to be a counterpart to the T-70. Possibly dropped because Relic couldn't spare the resources to make it, it uses the Panzer IV Ausf. F1 model and is not functional as a unit, although if spawned it will shoot at enemies.
I've always wanted a 70 fuel Pz III in Ost T2. Would be nice to have a more mobile solution for Ost's current light vehicle dilemma.
![avatar of Iron Emperor](/uploads/avatar/9775.jpg?updated=1431089651)
Posts: 1653
I have played a few 4v4 games as Soviet and I've changed my mind.
That thing is so fucking good. Especially with snipers, which help to take out PSchrekked PGrens and Paks.
Lowering damage won't help much, because 360 noscope long range AoE suppression will counter any infantry play anyway.
I think that locking upgrade behind T4 is the only option. Though I fear that it will repeat fate of Wehrmach Flamer Halftrack, despite it have no need to get into grenade range to shoot.
Personally, I'd better plant 4 mines in late game.
EDIT: I have to add that I never faced EARLY Pak. Opponents always tried to rush Puma/Panther or Ostwind/Pz.IV.
Luckely you've seen the problems now for yourself. So what we told wasn't utterly bullcrap. Point is that the early pak is just not flexible enough to take out a M5 since it can just flank you and take out your pak in only 2 seconds. Therefor a Puma does a way better job since it's armour is more resilliant against M5 Quad power
![avatar of ElSlayer](/uploads/avatar/10861.jpg?updated=1436977395)
Posts: 1605 | Subs: 1
Luckely you've seen the problems now for yourself. So what we told wasn't utterly bullcrap. Point is that the early pak is just not flexible enough to take out a M5 since it can just flank you and take out your pak in only 2 seconds. Therefor a Puma does a way better job since it's armour is more resilliant against M5 Quad power
Puma comes out a little bit late (if M5 was rushed) and is a reliable doctinal solution only if Soviet player chose doctrine without PTRS (non-Guard, not Tank Hunter).
Early Pak isn't flexible enough against M5 at same level as Maxim isn't flexible enough to deal with Kubel. Both can't finish it unless you've damaged its engine, but both can push that thing off. Actually Pak have more chances to kill M5 than Maxim against Kubel.
IMO if you let M5 to #justflank your Pak, you did something wrong, just like with any other light vehicle, be it T-70, double flamer M5 or just M3A1 flamecar.
![avatar of Tatatala](/images/avatars/panther.png?updated=1395697091)
Posts: 589
It can then be fausted if moving, or hit with a PaK if stationary and in suppression mode.
All these other suggestions are either too lacklustre, or over nerf.
I don't think you can give it a setup time, like OKW flak, because it doesn't come automatically with quad.
![avatar of OZtheWiZARD](/uploads/avatar/7525.jpg?updated=1400407007)
Posts: 1439
I think Comm Ash had the best solution in the other thread. Make it so that it can't suppress on the move, just like the Kubel.
It can then be fausted if moving, or hit with a PaK if stationary and in suppression mode.
All these other suggestions are either too lacklustre, or over nerf.
I don't think you can give it a setup time, like OKW flak, because it doesn't come automatically with quad.
Agreed. T4 requirement will make it come too late. Pushing T3 back will hurt overall performance of Soviet Army. I prefer M5 being powerful but with a gimmick rather than support unit it was.
![avatar of Rizza](/images/avatars/captain.png?updated=1414778148)
![Donator 2](/images/badges/crowdfunding/donator_2.png)
Posts: 101
If the M5 is OP, increase it's fuel cost, or require it to gain vet before upgrading.
![avatar of __deleted__](/images/no_av.png)
Posts: 1225
![avatar of Maschinengewehr](/images/no_av.png)
Posts: 334
New tech structure is honestly insanely stupid. Its entirely feasible to get the quad out at 3cp, while you won't get a PIV before 7cp unless you have absolutely dominating map control, and by the time you do, there will be 2 Su-76s waiting for you. OH is flat out borked this patch.
Tellers and Pumas from Mobile Defense are your saviour Kappa.
![avatar of daspoulos](/uploads/avatar/10763.jpg?updated=1411438557)
Posts: 1116 | Subs: 1
Permanently Banned![avatar of Iron Emperor](/uploads/avatar/9775.jpg?updated=1431089651)
Posts: 1653
@Elslayer I know that you do something wrong, but at some points your units get pushed back and your pak isn't back in the front lines quick enough.
![avatar of ElSlayer](/uploads/avatar/10861.jpg?updated=1436977395)
Posts: 1605 | Subs: 1
@Elslayer I know that you do something wrong, but at some points your units get pushed back and your pak isn't back in the front lines quick enough.
But then it is not a problem with M5 exclusively.
![avatar of Iron Emperor](/uploads/avatar/9775.jpg?updated=1431089651)
Posts: 1653
![avatar of Blalord](/images/avatars/major.png?updated=1414778153)
Posts: 742 | Subs: 1
Tellers and Pumas from Mobile Defense are your saviour Kappa.
Pumas come at 5 CP when Quad will come around 3 CP Kappa
![avatar of Maschinengewehr](/images/no_av.png)
Posts: 334
Pumas come at 5 CP when Quad will come around 3 CP Kappa
I know. I was jesting. Ost Pumas still work a treat against USF though. Just need to distract that Stuart for a bit and you're good to go
![:) :)](/images/Smileys/smile.gif)
![avatar of TickTack](/images/no_av.png)
Posts: 578
Use Pak, even some small arms fire with Pak will kill it. With schreks and pak it has no chance at all.
Flank the truck like other inf flank HMG's. Lay mines. Build early AT. L2P.
#Adapt.
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