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russian armor

Tiger Ace

11 Jan 2015, 06:52 AM
#61
avatar of UGBEAR

Posts: 954

It need a fuel cost about 250~260 and remove the resource penalty, limit to one of cuz.
11 Jan 2015, 07:54 AM
#62
avatar of van Voort
Honorary Member Badge

Posts: 3552 | Subs: 2

Tiger Ace is fine, sorry.


There was a time when it was stupidly OP, that time is passed.


Purists don't like the doctrine because troop training breaks what they view as a fundamental law of the game; but the Tiger Ace itsef? No problem
11 Jan 2015, 09:56 AM
#63
avatar of Lümmel
Patrion 14

Posts: 542 | Subs: 1

Tiger ace is still too overpowered, especially vs USF in 1v1 and 2v2.
Engage Jacksons, stun, destroy in 3 shots. There is almost no way to kill this thing without p47 or/and m20 mines.
11 Jan 2015, 11:43 AM
#64
avatar of Australian Magic

Posts: 4630 | Subs: 2

Tiger Ace is fine.
In fact I don't see any difference when dealing with regular Tiger or Tiger Ace.
I'm more scared of Elephant than Tiger Ace, really.
11 Jan 2015, 12:43 PM
#65
avatar of Slate

Posts: 31

I played a lot with the ace and I win games with Ostheer that way. Soviets shouldn't have a problem with it, if they don't go for a heavy lategame tank, it is maybe a wrong commanderchoice. It is easy to find out that the ace is coming..... USF dont have that option. You can only use P47 as a counter. You can go lucky with M20 mines. But maybe these are not very satisfying options. It is again a problem caused by WFA. I think the whole USF vs. Ostheer matchup is messed up.
12 Jan 2015, 23:59 PM
#66
avatar of Nathanm465

Posts: 204

Permanently Banned
They at first had the penalty of resources and manpower being zero going on even if you lost the ace. I think they should have kept that. Now they lose the ace and get their income back...

Bullshit, make it a risk not a instant win button if you are in need of such filthy ways to victory
13 Jan 2015, 01:14 AM
#67
avatar of ferwiner
Donator 11

Posts: 2885

Yeah, the only problem is caused by stupid usf vs wehr matchup, both factions need changes but usf needs much more. As for the ace it is powerfull of course but the doctrine itself is quite weak and I belive that the argument that it lets loosers comeback is stupid, if usf player cannot drain osther 500 vps before 15cp he wasn't winning at all, nobody can argue with that. Also the penalty is so huge that you don't have to and sometimes you really shouldn't kill the ace as as long it is on the field the enemy is draining manpower so much that he will be left with the ace only and no capping power and that means a lot when you need to comeback. All you have to do is that ostheer is sacrifizing a lot of mid game with that doctrine so if the match is even or allies are slightly winning it in fact means that things are going axis way and axis are the true winner the whole game.
18 Jan 2015, 10:33 AM
#68
avatar of Slate

Posts: 31

for me it looks like it itensifys the whole usf-ostheer meta. Ostheer is always on disadvantage until late mid/ late game. Tiger Ace is shifting that a bit more in the super late game
18 Jan 2015, 11:09 AM
#69
avatar of comm_ash
Patrion 14

Posts: 1194 | Subs: 1

jump backJump back to quoted post18 Jan 2015, 10:33 AMSlate
for me it looks like it itensifys the whole usf-ostheer meta. Ostheer is always on disadvantage until late mid/ late game. Tiger Ace is shifting that a bit more in the super late game


And what about soviets, should they just take it? TA needs at least a 100 fuel cost to make it balanced. As it stands now, you can go for p4s to keep early game pressure on your enemy, with 2 paks and tellers up to ward off IS2s, then grab a TA to contest the middlemost VP and use it defensively to kill his armor. (stun means at least 2 free pak volleys)
19 Jan 2015, 14:43 PM
#70
avatar of Slate

Posts: 31

In my opinion, the late Tiger Ace get punished by the soviet call in meta in the mid game. For example T34-85s just give the soviet player a oportunity window to get a huge advantage against P4s of the Ostheer player. I think T34-85 is the kind of tanks I fear most, when I play TA. Often I had to face around 4 of them when the TA hits the field and that is a real thread for a TA. In combination with mark vehicle they can kill it fast. IS2 is easier to get outmicroed by the TA than 4 T34-85s. For the Soviet Sherman goes the same thing like for T34-85, you have no mark vehicle, but they are easier to get.

Edit (after playing some 1 vs. 1 Ost-USF):

About USF: there is no way to win with Ostheer against USF without a Tiger Ace or Tiger. That matchup is not the topic here... But it is the point why I defend that TA xD.
19 Jan 2015, 22:49 PM
#71
avatar of ThoseDeafMutes

Posts: 1026

Just got rolled by TA last night so I'm feeling pretty bitter about it right now.

Does anybody have a list of differences between TA and normal Tiger? I'm interested in the specifics.
20 Jan 2015, 00:26 AM
#72
avatar of Imagelessbean

Posts: 1585 | Subs: 1

Tiger Ace is fine, sorry.


There was a time when it was stupidly OP, that time is passed.


Purists don't like the doctrine because troop training breaks what they view as a fundamental law of the game; but the Tiger Ace itsef? No problem


I really don't think so. The TA has a range basically equivalent to American TD's which means you have to put them at risk to even hit it. And with the stun shot it can kill the Jackson every time if the second shot is the stun shot since the Jackson cannot retreat before the 3rd. All other American AT is too weak to scare it. Also don't forget the instant reload glitch that makes it fire 2 shots extremely quickly.

Against Soviets it does what has already been said many times, it allows heavy tank pressure all game and a late game tiger to guarantee the win for 0 fuel!
20 Jan 2015, 00:32 AM
#73
avatar of Mr. Someguy

Posts: 4928

Just got rolled by TA last night so I'm feeling pretty bitter about it right now.

Does anybody have a list of differences between TA and normal Tiger? I'm interested in the specifics.


The Tiger Ace is a mix of special attributes and standard Tiger veterancy bonuses.

A Vet 3 Tiger gets the following:
Blitzkrieg ability, +25% range, +20% accuracy, +20% mobility, -20% scatter, -30% reload

In addition, the Tiger Ace also gets:
Target Weak Point, +15 vision (about 40-45% more)



The TA has a range basically equivalent to American TD's which means you have to put them at risk to even hit it. All other American AT is too weak to scare it.

Actually TA Range is 50, the Jackson's range is 60. It's trickly, but the Jackson does outrange it. Defensively, it is no difference from a Tiger Tank. They both have 1080 health and 300 armour. If you feel the Jackson can't penetrate the Tiger Ace, that's a problem with the Jackson and will apply to the it's performance against the Tiger Tank as well.
20 Jan 2015, 00:40 AM
#74
20 Jan 2015, 00:47 AM
#75
avatar of Sarantini
Honorary Member Badge
Donator 22

Posts: 2181



The Tiger Ace is a mix of special attributes and standard Tiger veterancy bonuses.

A Vet 3 Tiger gets the following:
Blitzkrieg ability, +25% range, +20% accuracy, +20% mobility, -20% scatter, -30% reload

In addition, the Tiger Ace also gets:
Target Weak Point, +15 vision (about 40-45% more)




Actually TA Range is 50, the Jackson's range is 60. It's trickly, but the Jackson does outrange it. Defensively, it is no difference from a Tiger Tank. They both have 1080 health and 300 armour. If you feel the Jackson can't penetrate the Tiger Ace, that's a problem with the Jackson and will apply to the it's performance against the Tiger Tank as well.


Actually when they changed the HP from the tiger to 1040 they left the tiger ace at 1280. 240 hp makes a lot of difference
20 Jan 2015, 01:03 AM
#76
avatar of ThoseDeafMutes

Posts: 1026



The Tiger Ace is a mix of special attributes and standard Tiger veterancy bonuses.

A Vet 3 Tiger gets the following:
Blitzkrieg ability, +25% range, +20% accuracy, +20% mobility, -20% scatter, -30% reload

In addition, the Tiger Ace also gets:
Target Weak Point, +15 vision (about 40-45% more)


Ugh, no wonder we were having so much trouble. It kept rolling up to our lines at the exact wrong moment when one of my teammate's Jacksons was getting stuck on a piece of geometry (Vaux farmlands = our most hated map) or something and would be able to get a kill before our tanks could respond in force then reverse out of there. Smoke ability saved their life 200 billion times as the couple of seconds between noticing it, giving the attack ground order and the shells landing was just enough time to scoot away.

I know the doc isn't necessarily OP but holy shit that was so frustrating.
20 Jan 2015, 01:39 AM
#77
avatar of Mr. Someguy

Posts: 4928

Actually when they changed the HP from the tiger to 1040 they left the tiger ace at 1280. 240 hp makes a lot of difference


I forgot about that, it is another bonus it has. Regardless the problem isn't the unit, but the method of deployment and the penalties for it as well as the overall design of Heavy Tanks in general.
20 Jan 2015, 02:38 AM
#78
avatar of ThoseDeafMutes

Posts: 1026

If they couldn't just have an endless stream of mediums as fuel sinks prior to getting out the TA it would be a lot fairer, methinks. I'm not sure why they decided on such a peculiar method for costing the Tiger Ace - just being different for its own sake.
20 Jan 2015, 03:16 AM
#79
avatar of van Voort
Honorary Member Badge

Posts: 3552 | Subs: 2

Wrong thread
20 Jan 2015, 03:18 AM
#80
avatar of van Voort
Honorary Member Badge

Posts: 3552 | Subs: 2

IRC when it first came out it was free and stopped all resource income for as long as it was alive


Now it has a front loaded MP only cost, and reduces income afterwards
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