Tiger Ace
3 Dec 2014, 20:52 PM
#1
15 
Posts: 1970 | Subs: 5
It's been a while since this unit was discussed. I'm adding it to the issue tracker here because I still believe that it's heavily flawed. In large team games I think it gives you a severe disadvantage, and in 1v1s it can win games as soon as it hits the field. Please take a minute to vote and comment and I'd also like to hear others' thoughts on it.
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3 Dec 2014, 20:54 PM
#2
Posts: 1702
Personally i think the tiger ace is downright broken.
If you are behind, it gives you a free chance to comeback
In an equal 1v1, it gives you a huge advantage
If you are winning, it is a nail in the coffin.
If you are behind, it gives you a free chance to comeback
In an equal 1v1, it gives you a huge advantage
If you are winning, it is a nail in the coffin.
3 Dec 2014, 20:57 PM
#3
Posts: 4928
The unit is fine, the mechanics surrounding it (no fuel cost, removal of penalty on death) are not.
A massive population cost could be an alternative to the resource penalty in general.
A massive population cost could be an alternative to the resource penalty in general.
all you filthy hotchkiss lovers need to l2p #TeamPanzerIII
> Kriegsbeute Doctrine|Partisan Rework|British Infantry Rework|Soviet Assault Squad <
3 Dec 2014, 20:59 PM
#4
15 Posts: 1970 | Subs: 5
I don't really think the unit is fine either. Target weak point is pretty OP as it is, even if you ignore the bug that also lets it fire twice in rapid succession. I can't believe they then put it on a tiger.
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3 Dec 2014, 21:01 PM
#5
Posts: 4928
I don't really think the unit is fine either. Target weak point is pretty OP as it is, even if you ignore the bug that also lets it fire twice in rapid succession. I can't believe they then put it on a tiger.
I've never been able to produce that bug with TWP, only Concrete / AP round, or with Barrage abilities.
all you filthy hotchkiss lovers need to l2p #TeamPanzerIII
> Kriegsbeute Doctrine|Partisan Rework|British Infantry Rework|Soviet Assault Squad <
3 Dec 2014, 21:07 PM
#6
8 Posts: 2470
if the TA get's nerfed significantly it should no longer be a single shot unit. it IS an incredibly powerful unit and could stand for a cost increase/readjustment, but i feel that most of that is represented in the single chance you get to use it. i think it's really more of an issue in smaller games as well because it represents a large amount of power relative to what's already on the field.
3 Dec 2014, 21:07 PM
#7
Posts: 818
I think the main issue is the fuel cost, make it cost slightly more than a regular tiger in terms of fuel and remove the resource penalty. It should still feel like an obvious choice though b/c its Fricken a tiger ace.
Its clear the main problem is the fact that the game is about map control and gaining resources but this unit laughs at that and says HA Map control is for noobs
Its clear the main problem is the fact that the game is about map control and gaining resources but this unit laughs at that and says HA Map control is for noobs
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3 Dec 2014, 21:08 PM
#8
15 Posts: 1970 | Subs: 5
Here's a clip of the tiger ace firing twice with target weak point
http://youtu.be/S-0_cMUTGdk?t=1h5m15s
http://youtu.be/S-0_cMUTGdk?t=1h5m15s
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3 Dec 2014, 21:18 PM
#9
Posts: 89
I don't play 1v1 but in 4v4 it's pretty weak.
It's not the firepower that is a problem but rather how weak it is against even a single well played Jackson.
Sure it is powerful but remember that you get pretty much zero fuel while it's in and manpower is almost shut down as well.
If anything it should be boosted not nerfed.
It's not the firepower that is a problem but rather how weak it is against even a single well played Jackson.
Sure it is powerful but remember that you get pretty much zero fuel while it's in and manpower is almost shut down as well.
If anything it should be boosted not nerfed.
3 Dec 2014, 21:22 PM
#10
Posts: 8154 | Subs: 2
The unit is fine, the mechanics surrounding it (no fuel cost, removal of penalty on death) are not.
My controls weren't working
And if they were, you were playing dishonorably,
And if you weren't, you were playing without skill,
And if you were, it's not fun to play that way,
And if it is, you only care about winning.
Bible of Scrublord, Psalt 3:16.
And if they were, you were playing dishonorably,
And if you weren't, you were playing without skill,
And if you were, it's not fun to play that way,
And if it is, you only care about winning.
Bible of Scrublord, Psalt 3:16.
3 Dec 2014, 21:25 PM
#11
Posts: 2070
how come the unit is very powerful in 1v1, especially vs USF?
Axis doesn't have the best AT options in the game
3 Dec 2014, 21:25 PM
#12
15 Posts: 1970 | Subs: 5
Exactly Tivook. I guess I'm not really arguing for a nerf or a buff, just a change as well as some bug fixes.
There's less on the field that can reduce its initial shock value. The soviet AT gun has better penetration, and Mark Vehicle, T-34/85s, the IS-2 and ISU can all threaten it moderately well.
The USF AT gun can barely touch it, bazookas can barely touch it. The Jackson and M10 can combat it but they have to be used very defensively and in an even game this may not be an option. I lost a very close game vs Zoro aka "!!!!!!!!!" because he fielded a Tiger Ace and it was impossible for me to push after that point.
Easy Eight spam is very effective if you can get a third one out before it arrives.
The M20 mine is of course still disastrous if the Ace hits it. The P-47 is great too.
how come the unit is very powerful in 1v1, especially vs USF?
There's less on the field that can reduce its initial shock value. The soviet AT gun has better penetration, and Mark Vehicle, T-34/85s, the IS-2 and ISU can all threaten it moderately well.
The USF AT gun can barely touch it, bazookas can barely touch it. The Jackson and M10 can combat it but they have to be used very defensively and in an even game this may not be an option. I lost a very close game vs Zoro aka "!!!!!!!!!" because he fielded a Tiger Ace and it was impossible for me to push after that point.
Easy Eight spam is very effective if you can get a third one out before it arrives.
The M20 mine is of course still disastrous if the Ace hits it. The P-47 is great too.
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3 Dec 2014, 21:35 PM
#13
Posts: 17884 | Subs: 8
how come the unit is very powerful in 1v1, especially vs USF?
Because its vet3 tiger tank against a faction with subpar AT.
Maybe it's 'cause the Axis players aren't a bunch of forum crybabies, and they keep their cool and fight the uphill battle, unlike some of their "allied" counterparts.
3 Dec 2014, 21:40 PM
#14
Posts: 8154 | Subs: 2
And i think it's a bit faster but i'm not completely sure.
My controls weren't working
And if they were, you were playing dishonorably,
And if you weren't, you were playing without skill,
And if you were, it's not fun to play that way,
And if it is, you only care about winning.
Bible of Scrublord, Psalt 3:16.
And if they were, you were playing dishonorably,
And if you weren't, you were playing without skill,
And if you were, it's not fun to play that way,
And if it is, you only care about winning.
Bible of Scrublord, Psalt 3:16.
3 Dec 2014, 21:45 PM
#15
Posts: 4630 | Subs: 2
When I see JT or KT it's like - Oh, garden!
When I see TA - Eee, meh, 2 SU-85s and it's gone.
But as USF I have to pick up airborne for P-47. If I don't have P47 it's probably gg.
When I see TA - Eee, meh, 2 SU-85s and it's gone.
But as USF I have to pick up airborne for P-47. If I don't have P47 it's probably gg.
3 Dec 2014, 22:28 PM
#16
Posts: 680
The game is in a good condition when threads like this arrive.
3 Dec 2014, 22:34 PM
#17
Posts: 31
For me the TA is ok. I realy like the unit, but it is always a huge gamble to go for it. It is not invincible and often it feels like my opponent just is not prepared for it, even if he complains the whole game that it will come. But I am ranked 1600 with the Ostheer. So I think it is a mistake from my opponents and not a balance problem. I haven't seen a TA on a stream/ from top ranked players for a long time.
3 Dec 2014, 22:56 PM
#18
Posts: 1595 | Subs: 2
I typed up this really long response but than got bored and deleted it.
I leave you with this.
In large game modes I do not believe this doctrine can be fixed.
I leave you with this.
In large game modes I do not believe this doctrine can be fixed.
The views and opinions expressed in my posts and topics are solely those of the Napalm. These views and opinions do not necessarily represent those of Relic, the developers, The Angry Bears and/or any/all contributors to this site.
3 Dec 2014, 22:58 PM
#19
15 Posts: 1970 | Subs: 5
This thread is not about the elite troops doctrine in its entirety, just the tiger ace.
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3 Dec 2014, 23:00 PM
#20
8 Posts: 2470
the tiger ace is a beast on any map without long firing lanes. lanzerath ambush and la gleize in the woods of both. it's stronger than a KT or IS2 because it's pretty quick, does a shit ton of damage at longer than engagement range, and the turret turns fast. jacksons are useless in that situation.
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