Someone suggested that a swap between the T34/76 and the T34/85 could be done. The T34/85 would be available in the soviet T3 for around 400 mp and 140 fuel. And the T34/76 would be available in Advanced warfare tactics and Guard motor tactics. Would such switch benefit coh2? What do you think?
My initial thoughts are that the soviet T3 would get some logic, making the T70 a fast tank to rush out and the T34/85 the safer bet but coming out some minutes later. And it would certainly make soviet more viable in the tank-department.
The T34/76 could also come to good use in the commanders, but maybe the cps would have to be 6 or 7? Pushing out two T34/76 at 6 cp would be strong for the moment, but it would also mean no T34/85s.
In fact this swap also would be more in line with history as more T34/85 was built -http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/T-34
It would also in some sense deal with the call-in-meta.
Discuss!
Would a swap between T34/76 and T34/85 be good for the game?
24 Sep 2014, 23:58 PM
#1
Posts: 680
25 Sep 2014, 00:04 AM
#2
Posts: 4928
That depends, you'd need to make changes to the German mid-game to compensate, or both OKW and WM will be at risk of having no viable mid-game armour against it.
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25 Sep 2014, 00:06 AM
#3
Posts: 680
That depends, you'd need to make changes to the German mid-game to compensate, or both OKW and WM will be at risk of having no viable mid-game armour against it.
I think this is the biggest problem with the swap. Having to re-balance to much.
But it would also mean that the T34/85 would come out later than the T34/76. So in some sense the fuelcost itself takes care of this. And you would probably see more T-70s which would delay it even further.
25 Sep 2014, 00:18 AM
#4
Posts: 2779
85 are too good, they are in 10 CP for a reason.
25 Sep 2014, 00:21 AM
#5
Posts: 680
85 are too good, they are in 10 CP for a reason.
Yeah, They are too good at the moment when you dont need any buildings for them.
25 Sep 2014, 03:46 AM
#6
Posts: 365
85 are too good, they are in 10 CP for a reason.
requiring t3 to get the 85 would actually increase the cost to field them..
this is a general flaw with all call ins though, if you opt to not go t3/t4 and rely on call ins, the superior tanks you can call in are actually cheaper than your core units.
25 Sep 2014, 05:33 AM
#7
Posts: 4630 | Subs: 2
I'm allies player but I voted no.
Of course T34/85 is cool and it would be fun to have it as tier unit, but I really like T34/76. Cheap, spamable with good AI power tank.
If Soviets were designed to play with call-in, Relic should redesign (remove) few doctrines which no one use (like this with Dskh and 45mm at gun), and make some new with T34/85.
Of course T34/85 is cool and it would be fun to have it as tier unit, but I really like T34/76. Cheap, spamable with good AI power tank.
If Soviets were designed to play with call-in, Relic should redesign (remove) few doctrines which no one use (like this with Dskh and 45mm at gun), and make some new with T34/85.
25 Sep 2014, 05:57 AM
#8
Posts: 1130
It would simply result in the 85 being spammed as they are significantly better then the their t-34 p4 and sherman non doctrinal tanks. The best solution for the soviets is that if they buy either tier 3 or 4 the other tier 3 receives a fuel reduction of 70 thus making soviet tiers more accessible.
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25 Sep 2014, 12:49 PM
#9
Posts: 543
I'd rather make the T34-85 a buyable upgrade in the T3 building, like the bigger gun sherman was in CoH1. It could cost something like 200 MP and 80-100 Fuel.
EDIT: typos
EDIT: typos
25 Sep 2014, 13:41 PM
#10
Posts: 2742
I'd rather make the T34-85 a buyable upgrade in the T3 building, like the bigger gun sherman was in CoH1. It could cost something like 200 MP and 80-100 Fuel.
EDIT: typos
Pretty much. I've always been surprised this has not been the case.
Sacrifice the 76's superior AI gun for better AT in the 85. It works great because the decision to upgun comes at a trade-off.
So many good, solid mechanics I feel like were avoided strictly because they were in vCoH in this game. I can understand the drive to not clone the preceding game, but that game's balance was not accidental. Haphazard, perhaps, but not an accident. It's a shame they've had to abandon it.
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25 Sep 2014, 13:55 PM
#11
Posts: 2693 | Subs: 1
Swapping the T34/76 with the T34/85 can't happen. It would mean that the allies would have a stock unit that is better than an axis stock unit.
25 Sep 2014, 14:04 PM
#12
Posts: 17891 | Subs: 8
Sacrifice the 76's superior AI gun for better AT in the 85. It works great because the decision to upgun comes at a trade-off.
There is no such thing as superior 76 AI gun.
34/85 does every single thing better, that includes AI.
Also for people deluding themselves with relic doing anything major for soviets-just stop. Minor balance changes with complete dismissal of 80% of doctrines is all we can count on.
Maybe it's 'cause the Axis players aren't a bunch of forum crybabies, and they keep their cool and fight the uphill battle, unlike some of their "allied" counterparts.
25 Sep 2014, 14:06 PM
#13
Posts: 2070
Swapping the T34/76 with the T34/85 can't happen. It would mean that the allies would have a stock unit that is better than an axis stock unit.
*Giggles* and we cant have Allied units being better than Axis units
Silly that T34/85 isn't an upgrade off of the T34/76 though. The bigger gun upgrade for the Sherman was present in COh1...
I do like the change however, I think it would solve some of the call-in issues. You could call-in an inferior tank or choose to upgrade buildings and tiers to get a superior core unit. Having more freedom and choice for the player is always a good thing.
Axis doesn't have the best AT options in the game
25 Sep 2014, 16:13 PM
#14
Posts: 680
I'd rather make the T34-85 a buyable upgrade in the T3 building, like the bigger gun sherman was in CoH1. It could cost something like 200 MP and 80-100 Fuel.
A buyable upgrade wouldnt solve the problem with call-ins. Would you rather pay for a building and then a upgrade to get T34/85 or just call them in for free?
25 Sep 2014, 16:19 PM
#15
Posts: 978
I voted "yes". The T-34/85 is iconic for the Soviet war machine in 1944-1945. It feels out of place to not have this tank in almost every game.
The T-34/76 should come in a doctrine and be dirt cheap and around 6-8 cps, so you can use it earlier and people would still go for said doctrines.
I hate playing Soviets as I either get useful tanks OR infantry upgrades and good artillery.
The T-34/76 should come in a doctrine and be dirt cheap and around 6-8 cps, so you can use it earlier and people would still go for said doctrines.
I hate playing Soviets as I either get useful tanks OR infantry upgrades and good artillery.
25 Sep 2014, 16:29 PM
#16
Posts: 17891 | Subs: 8
Pffff, soviets are not allowed to have late war iconic stuff as stuck units.
This is the privilege of axis.
This is the privilege of axis.
Maybe it's 'cause the Axis players aren't a bunch of forum crybabies, and they keep their cool and fight the uphill battle, unlike some of their "allied" counterparts.
25 Sep 2014, 17:06 PM
#17
Posts: 2070
Not having the T34/85 as a nondoc uinit is like having the Sherman commander clal-in
Axis doesn't have the best AT options in the game
26 Sep 2014, 04:39 AM
#18
Posts: 508
It does feel rather silly for it to be a doc unit when both German factions get non-doc panthers and OKW gets King Tiger as a stock unit.
On the other hand, it being a call-in makes it a much more viable unit because it has no build time and requires no teching ... 2 T34/76s cost more than 2 T34-85s, and that's kinda messed up in a game that centers on short matches.
Maybe Relic will cut as a deal - T34-85 becomes a stock unit, but to maintain the "sovietness" of soviet faction, it gets the following soviet vet bonuses:
vet 1 - capture mode
vet 2 - tripwire mines
vet 3 - a tracking ability that does not work
On the other hand, it being a call-in makes it a much more viable unit because it has no build time and requires no teching ... 2 T34/76s cost more than 2 T34-85s, and that's kinda messed up in a game that centers on short matches.
Pffff, soviets are not allowed to have late war iconic stuff as stuck units.
This is the privilege of axis.
Maybe Relic will cut as a deal - T34-85 becomes a stock unit, but to maintain the "sovietness" of soviet faction, it gets the following soviet vet bonuses:
vet 1 - capture mode
vet 2 - tripwire mines
vet 3 - a tracking ability that does not work
26 Sep 2014, 09:03 AM
#19
7 
Posts: 1664
Reduce t34/85 aoe a bit and make them worthy of their 76mm gun with stronger penetration to take on Panthers.
26 Sep 2014, 14:17 PM
#20
Posts: 543
There is no such thing as superior 76 AI gun.
34/85 does every single thing better, that includes AI.
Unfortunately
Also for people deluding themselves with relic doing anything major for soviets-just stop. Minor balance changes with complete dismissal of 80% of doctrines is all we can count on.
True. Again, unfortunately. But let us dream anyway. Maybe a future mod...
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