I don't understand why Ostheer and Russian snipers have the same cost (360 manpower).
I can agree that Russian sniper is expensive to reinforce and the second man would die very fast and I agree that Ostheer sniper is very useful against shock troops but I'm talking about Sniper balance. I'm not Ok with the fact that the counter for Ostheer sniper is a soviet sniper, but not vice versa (and both have the same cost).
In a game like COH, the counter for a good microed sniper should be another microed sniper.
1 unit per sniper in Russian faction would be enough. I know they have less Rate of Fire but german squad size have 4 units while Russian have 6.
Sniper Balance
24 Jan 2014, 15:07 PM
#1
Posts: 410
24 Jan 2014, 15:14 PM
#2
Posts: 307
I don't care about any of this.
German sniper and mg42 come from the same building, combine both of them and you'll never have questions like this.
German sniper and mg42 come from the same building, combine both of them and you'll never have questions like this.
Vae Victis!
24 Jan 2014, 15:14 PM
#3
Posts: 108
Ostheer snipe has an other important advantage on Russian sniper. He stays invisible for several sec after going out of cover. Russian snipes don't
Ostheer snipe doesn't counter russian snipe (2vs1). But Ostheer snipe counter better other infantry than russian do because it is harder to localise and kill him.
Ostheer snipe doesn't counter russian snipe (2vs1). But Ostheer snipe counter better other infantry than russian do because it is harder to localise and kill him.
24 Jan 2014, 15:16 PM
#4
4 
Posts: 813 | Subs: 1
Don't agree with sniper counters sniper to be a must. I actually prefer it this way, where snipers are more likely to die from mortars or being run over. The sniper wars from coh1 were kind of fun, but also frustrating. Also with the new cover system I think it makes more sense to have to counter snipers with something else than an exact copy of the same unit.
24 Jan 2014, 15:22 PM
#5
Posts: 410
Russian Tier 1 vs Ostheer Tier 1:
There's no unit in Ostheer Tier that counters soviet sniper. you are forced to charge with your infantry.
At least in Coh1 you had bikes.
There's no unit in Ostheer Tier that counters soviet sniper. you are forced to charge with your infantry.
At least in Coh1 you had bikes.
24 Jan 2014, 15:24 PM
#6
Posts: 307
Ostheer snipe has an other important advantage on Russian sniper. He stays invisible for several sec after going out of cover. Russian snipes don't
Ostheer snipe doesn't counter russian snipe (2vs1). But Ostheer snipe counter better other infantry than russian do because it is harder to localise and kill him.
I totally agree with this. Sometimes I chase after German sniper, but he would just swing around the corner or bush and simply vanish. And I never find him again even if there is a clear LoS on the whole area. Germans are so much better in finding cover and escape.
Vae Victis!
24 Jan 2014, 15:31 PM
#7
Posts: 17890 | Subs: 8
I don't understand why Ostheer and Russian snipers have the same cost (360 manpower).
I can agree that Russian sniper is expensive to reinforce and the second man would die very fast and I agree that Ostheer sniper is very useful against shock troops but I'm talking about Sniper balance. I'm not Ok with the fact that the counter for Ostheer sniper is a soviet sniper, but not vice versa (and both have the same cost).
In a game like COH, the counter for a good microed sniper should be another microed sniper.
1 unit per sniper in Russian faction would be enough. I know they have less Rate of Fire but german squad size have 4 units while Russian have 6.
You're not talking about sniper balance, you're talking about sniper vs sniper battles.
These don't exist anymore.
Just like penals don't stand a chance against equally expensive pzgs.
Snipers are different and they are not meant to counter each other.
Soviet snipers will always be 2 men and german snipers will always be 1.
Relic ensured us about this multiple times, so threads like this are void.
Relic also said they are balancing snipers, but will not change their survivability.
Maybe it's 'cause the Axis players aren't a bunch of forum crybabies, and they keep their cool and fight the uphill battle, unlike some of their "allied" counterparts.
24 Jan 2014, 15:41 PM
#8
Posts: 410
But at the moment people is abusing on Sniper + guards + mines and there's almost anything in Ostheer T1,T2 that can counter it.
Maybe increasing Guards CP should balance this situation.
Maybe increasing Guards CP should balance this situation.
24 Jan 2014, 15:42 PM
#9
Posts: 1221 | Subs: 41
My problem with the sniper matchup isn't the twoman soviet sniper but them being able to garrison m3s really...they stop you from getting a single member kill on the soviet snipers and in general are a huge pain in the ass for germans to deal with now that guards come so early and scout cars never go above "paper thin" durability wise. When your best T1 counter is getting a mortar and praying for a lucky hit or getting a pak from T2 and hoping your opponent overcommits into the firing cone and the pak actually hits (45% chance or something like that at max range?), you know things are a bit wonky.
24 Jan 2014, 15:46 PM
#10
Posts: 1585 | Subs: 1
My problem with the sniper matchup isn't the twoman soviet sniper but them being able to garrison m3s really...they stop you from getting a single member kill on the soviet snipers
The guards problem is also an issue, but infantry in vehicles shooting on the move is stupid. I really disliked roo's, and I mean I hated them, and this unit functions in a similar manner. I like the very vulnerable PE inf HT that could not hold a sniper.
Also just to add, sprint for soviet snipers is really, really good.
24 Jan 2014, 16:00 PM
#11
Posts: 410
That would be fine if garrisoned units in vehicles would have x2 penalty from snipers (like it was in coh1). That'd be a good counter for Russian Sniper + clown car.
24 Jan 2014, 16:32 PM
#12
Posts: 119
Not the Rus Sniper team the real problem, the real problem is nothing effective counter in WM side, for the Rus sniper team + AT naded screening Conscript/Button capable Guards/in late game Su85+Sniper spam combo... Scout Car is nothing now, German Sniper is designed NOT to counter the RUS sniper team 
...
...
24 Jan 2014, 16:44 PM
#13
Posts: 17890 | Subs: 8
Not the Rus Sniper team the real problem, the real problem is nothing effective counter in WM side, for the Rus sniper team + AT naded screening Conscript/Button capable Guards/in late game Su85+Sniper spam combo... Scout Car is nothing now, German Sniper is designed NOT to counter the RUS sniper team
Ever tried using... I don't know... combined arms?
You are complaining at the moment that there is no single unit that can handle combination of at least 3 different soviet units, including doctrinal one.
Don't you think that sounds a bit silly?
How about getting your own sniper to snipe guards? Or MG42+mortar to force them to move/lock them in one place and then use scout car? Or use MG42 with grens and your own sniper or even mortar?
Maybe it's 'cause the Axis players aren't a bunch of forum crybabies, and they keep their cool and fight the uphill battle, unlike some of their "allied" counterparts.
24 Jan 2014, 17:04 PM
#14
Posts: 410
Because the amount of manpower and Tiers used in Ostheer side is higher than Russian side.
That means that, with the same amount of resources, the Russian player will have much more units in fiel than you will have.
Not to mention that Ostheer squad size is lower and you need to retreat and reinforce more often.
That means that, with the same amount of resources, the Russian player will have much more units in fiel than you will have.
Not to mention that Ostheer squad size is lower and you need to retreat and reinforce more often.
24 Jan 2014, 17:26 PM
#15
Posts: 17890 | Subs: 8
Because the amount of manpower and Tiers used in Ostheer side is higher than Russian side.
That means that, with the same amount of resources, the Russian player will have much more units in fiel than you will have.
Not to mention that Ostheer squad size is lower and you need to retreat and reinforce more often.
Snipers are only issue in early game.
Soviet T1+molotov and or AT nades>>german T1+T2.
Bad excuse. Squad size is also a bad excuse, because soviet sniper shoots 100% slower at max range, so german sniper inflicts more bleed.
Moreover if you don't go for T4, then cost difference between 3 german tiers and 2 soviet ones+AT/molotovs are not that off.
Maybe it's 'cause the Axis players aren't a bunch of forum crybabies, and they keep their cool and fight the uphill battle, unlike some of their "allied" counterparts.
24 Jan 2014, 18:17 PM
#16
Posts: 747
Don't agree with sniper counters sniper to be a must. I actually prefer it this way, where snipers are more likely to die from mortars or being run over. The sniper wars from coh1 were kind of fun, but also frustrating. Also with the new cover system I think it makes more sense to have to counter snipers with something else than an exact copy of the same unit.
+1
24 Jan 2014, 18:31 PM
#17
Posts: 222
I said it before and I`ll say it again.
Snipers are a flawed concept not fitting into the game (similar to Tiger Ace but in a different way). While other units do damage and can be countered, snipers insta-kill and there is no real counter, you have to pray for luck (mortar) or your opponent`s mistake to "counter" them.
This is a much bigger problem with soviet snipers as they are less susceptible to dying to RNG because of the 2 man squad. RNG is snipers` only weakness and 2 man squad further mitigates this single weakness. It also gives them the advantage in countersniping, which I wouldn`t consider to be countering btw, it`s building the same kind of unit.
Also as Cruzzi very well pointed out - soviet snipers in scout cars, what a load of BS.
Soviet snipers should be made doctrinal or nerfed.
Last but not least, I think it would be a good idea to have a limit of having max 1 sniper squad on the field at any given time, same as arty officer.
Snipers are a flawed concept not fitting into the game (similar to Tiger Ace but in a different way). While other units do damage and can be countered, snipers insta-kill and there is no real counter, you have to pray for luck (mortar) or your opponent`s mistake to "counter" them.
This is a much bigger problem with soviet snipers as they are less susceptible to dying to RNG because of the 2 man squad. RNG is snipers` only weakness and 2 man squad further mitigates this single weakness. It also gives them the advantage in countersniping, which I wouldn`t consider to be countering btw, it`s building the same kind of unit.
Also as Cruzzi very well pointed out - soviet snipers in scout cars, what a load of BS.
Soviet snipers should be made doctrinal or nerfed.
Last but not least, I think it would be a good idea to have a limit of having max 1 sniper squad on the field at any given time, same as arty officer.
24 Jan 2014, 19:23 PM
#18
Posts: 119
Yes, Sniper is the unit, what need hard cap, 2+ Sniper in SU side --> 1 Volley from 50 range, can force retreat, or kill full squad. That is not problem, IF you can counter this BS, but in under mid game, AT naded Conscript(T0 tech), or doctrinal 1 Cp(ZERO tech, 2.30 time mark) Guards can protect vs everything except mortar-arty luck shoot... Later SU85, Guards, At naded Conscript Sniper spam is the problem... Hard cap would be fine on Sniper, maybe both side...
24 Jan 2014, 23:12 PM
#19
Posts: 1439
Snipers are only valid until first vehicles hit the field. Yes, they are annoying but they won't win you the game and this goes for both sides.
They're only delaying your tech causing MP bleed. I think they do just that. Yes, you could say Soviet sniper seems more resilient with 2 man squad but German one shoots twice as fast and can almost be permanently invisible. I think this is nice trade off and good asymmetric balance.
They're only delaying your tech causing MP bleed. I think they do just that. Yes, you could say Soviet sniper seems more resilient with 2 man squad but German one shoots twice as fast and can almost be permanently invisible. I think this is nice trade off and good asymmetric balance.
25 Jan 2014, 01:05 AM
#20
Posts: 4928
Russian Tier 1 vs Ostheer Tier 1:
There's no unit in Ostheer Tier that counters soviet sniper. you are forced to charge with your infantry.
At least in Coh1 you had bikes.
This is what is really missing from Sniper play, a low cost (no fuel) vehicle that can scout for Snipers and hunt them down. Both Scout Car's currently available cost fuel, and generally fill a different role.
They should just make T0 Kübelwagen and GAZ-67, for about 250MP each.
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