Why are you asking me?
I have not suggested that Elefant should have 60 range HE rounds.
Perhaps he wants the T-34 to have a 100% chance to penetrate the rear from mid-range, a benefit now enjoyed by the Panzer IV?
Posts: 4928
Why are you asking me?
I have not suggested that Elefant should have 60 range HE rounds.
Posts: 1563
Simple cause the alternatives were stronger. Either OKW was better (pre nerf JLI/Falls) or you were forced to play a Tiger doctrine (or as usual an ELE doctrine on teamgames).
The moment Tigers are not mandatory to counter IS2/Pershings, OH went back into using Ostruppen doctrines + other infantry based ones.
T4/late game buffs means less reliance on doctrinal options for that period of the game.
Posts: 17914 | Subs: 8
M8 I know that's the case. I'm just saying the FACT THAT 5 MAN GREN IS OP WAS NOT ALL THAT APPARANT.
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Posts: 177
According to new patch preview:
I highly recommend to increase 222's armor or, at least, give it an armor upgrade same as M20 utility car has.
Reason:
With the new Vickers Vet 1 ability, almost every MG is now capable of dealing with light vehicles. On top of that, Soviets are getting better infantry AT with new Penals with PTRS. For Wehrmacht, the only faction having no light tanks, this is a huge disadvantage in game.
There is absolutely no need for allies any more to get an AT gun in midgame or any other AT wepaons, cause there are enough soft counters on field. Even right now without those changes Armored Cars are having problems to fight Bren/Bar blobs, cause of their high damage.
And please remember, 222s are no T70s or Luchs...they are less potent which means, a better armor won't OP them! Please keep this in mind.
And don't misread my post: Vicekers and Penal PTRS buffs are absolutely fine! I appreciate them. But I fear Wehr will get big troubles until P4 or Ostwind arrive, which mabye come too late...
Posts: 97
222 still is the strongest light vehicles in early game(3-5 minutes).
It need 3 shot from AT or 7-8 shot by T70 or 4x Ptrs salvo to take down.
Its survivalbilty and HP are already good enough.
222 do have a auto cannon that can chase and kill other early vehicles include m20.
Posts: 1289
Sorry but I doubt you have ever played with 222.
- 222 needs 2 AT gun shots to get destroyed. Only with Vet3 it gets some additional HP to survive 2nd gun shot
- fastest build is 4:40 minutes. (good fuel income, T1 skip)
- Autocannon has pretty low penetration of 35 (vs. AEC 63%, T70 50%, Stuart 44%) with very low damage of 20
It's by far not the strongest LV in early game. You can deal with it with every squad because all weapons can penetrate its armor. And the only LVs you can "chase and kill" are Soviet clown car, Universal Carrier, WC51, M20 and all Halftracks.
But you go high risk if you try to kill USF Flak HT or Soviet ZSU. Most of the times, you loose your 222.
In conclusion, learn your facts.
Posts: 97
Posts: 224
Posts: 1289
Sorry, but that's exactly my point: Wehrmacht has 0 light tanks. They only have this scout car, which has do deal vs. LV AND LT.
And as I said, you have to look at this in reference to the new balance patch: Better AT squads for Svoiets and better Vickers for Brits. Both can easily counter 222.
Posts: 17914 | Subs: 8
Posts: 713 | Subs: 2
In light of recent buffs to all T4 related units, maybe its time to consider making gren reinforce cost reduction a side tech as well?
T4 is much more easily transition-able then it ever was and all of the units are extremely good at what they do unless someone uses them terribly wrong.
I do not see much of a reason for further free incentive to transition into T4 or just straight go for it, because nowadays it simply is too good to pass on, especially 2v2 and up.
Posts: 17914 | Subs: 8
Gren reinforce cost buff is insignificant. It's a complete fluff feature. If you make it a sidetech with any kind of significant cost it's just gonna be pointless. I mean either way it's pointless so might as well put it behind an upgrade lol
Posts: 713 | Subs: 2
Then give it insignificant manpower and fuel cost.
There is no reason why it should be free anymore.
Posts: 5279
Way too convoluted to put something this minor behind an upgrade.
Posts: 1794
Sorry but I doubt you have ever played with 222.
- 222 needs 2 AT gun shots to get destroyed. Only with Vet3 it gets some additional HP to survive 2nd gun shot
- fastest build is 4:40 minutes. (good fuel income, T1 skip)
- Autocannon has pretty low penetration of 35 (vs. AEC 63%, T70 50%, Stuart 44%) with very low damage of 20
It's by far not the strongest LV in early game. You can deal with it with every squad because all weapons can penetrate its armor. And the only LVs you can "chase and kill" are Soviet clown car, Universal Carrier, WC51, M20 and all Halftracks.
But you go high risk if you try to kill USF Flak HT or Soviet ZSU. Most of the times, you loose your 222.
In conclusion, learn your facts.
Posts: 1563
In light of recent buffs to all T4 related units, maybe its time to consider making gren reinforce cost reduction a side tech as well?
T4 is much more easily transition-able then it ever was and all of the units are extremely good at what they do unless someone uses them terribly wrong.
I do not see much of a reason for further free incentive to transition into T4 or just straight go for it, because nowadays it simply is too good to pass on, especially 2v2 and up.
Posts: 5279
agree, 222 needs some love.
i suggest move vet3 hp to vet2 and give vet3 some new timed recon ability with muni required.
Posts: 8154 | Subs: 2
Here is something I don't get. Side techs in this game(comparing to coh1) are really trivial cost wise. I don't really how they are even significantly impactful to the game. The community has literally patched out any semblance of risk associated with teching and side teching(for wehr it would be tech skipping) long ago to the point side tech doesn't even serve it's main design purpose anymore. So please elaborate what is all the hangup with whole side tech is the spawn of the devil mentality. I just don't get it. You want the gren upgrade to be side tech fine explain how that will balance or change the dynamics of the game(and better not be the player now has to actively think about it)
Posts: 1116 | Subs: 1
In light of recent buffs to all T4 related units, maybe its time to consider making gren reinforce cost reduction a side tech as well?
Cause he is trying to apply the same (bad changes) logic which is been applied at the moment to Soviets.
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