What about pios and sov engies? why not let them equip flamer and sweeper?
Sturmpioneers: Panzerschreck + minesweeper ?
15 Aug 2020, 08:59 AM
#21
Posts: 772
15 Aug 2020, 09:24 AM
#22
Posts: 1289
The repair station is not mobile and should not be placed on the front so you first will have to move your tank across half the map ( which will take some time , especially with crippled engine)
Also when you went T1 you first gotta spend another 75 fuel
Only the Panther really has a decent chance to bounce AT gun shots. And of course OKW tanks can bounce most non TD non doc tanks allies field. What do you expect? To pay 50 fuel less for a tank and to still be able to penetrate the enemy tank with ease?
The Comet isn't the only exception. There are the Churchill tanks that will get bounces too.
( and it is not like other allied non doc tanks will get no bounces at all )
Also it must be notet that allies also have access to doctrinal tanks which also will get a decent amount of bounces.
And the allies have access to the Jackson, Su 85 and the Firefly. Three non doc tanks that can cause quite some problems to the "toughest tanks"
The repair station is there non doc. So you always have the option to go get it. I am not disputing that its tied to a specific tech path or costs fuel. Its there stock non doctrinal.
I said all okw late game armour has a minimum of 230 armour. And that it they have a good chance to bounce all but td and at gun shots. Not that they bounce td's and at guns reguraly. Okw pays more for that rightly so.
Okw armour has good chance to bounce damage by medium tanks. Making a succefull snare to cripple the engine less likely in those scenario's. Again okw pays for this. Nothing wrong with that.
But then to use the okw struggles more repairing their more expensive but also more durable higher dps and in half the cases cases higher hp tanks is a bit strange imo. You cant have it all.
You are right about the chuchill bouncing. But you cant field them at the same time. That why i referenced only the comet. But thanks for the correction.
Only td and at gun are almost 100% reliable vs okw armour. In fact okw is the reason allied td's and at gun's are the way they are currently. Hh at and generalist mediums just dont cut it vs okw late game.
Freeing up the sturms still is an idea worth trying. Allowing shreck plus sweeper is defenitly worth testing.
15 Aug 2020, 09:37 AM
#23
Posts: 518
What about pios and sov engies? why not let them equip flamer and sweeper?
Because they cost 170 and 200 MP and a Panzerschreck is also not a flamer. Currently the Panzerschreck gets almost never chosen ( unlike flamer ) althought it is the only non doc infantry anti tank weapon OKW gets ( besides raketen ). Also a flamer is good at AI , so you basically would have a good AI squad that could march over mines. A Sturmpio with Schreck + Sweeper is neither good at AI nor AT.
Haha the votes on this alone show the euro synphatheizers feel they just deserve to win. Anytime an okw nerf is brought up. Brain dead faction that skilless people can play and i refuse to play because of it.
Playing with randoms
Haha the votes on this alone show the euro synphatheizers feel they just deserve to win. Anytime an okw nerf is brought up. Brain dead faction that skilless people can play and i refuse to play because of it.
I've talked with mods enough times, I know when I'm going overboard, I usually limit myself, but there is only so much tolerance I have for entitled, ignorant fucks like you
The idea that the Jackson needed ANY nerfing is so laughable. It only serves ONE task, how dare it be good at that. If it were a good against infantry like the Panther, King Tiger, Panzer IV, Jagtiger, Elefant, I could see how it might be a problem and need a nerf but it's not
Haha the votes on this alone show the euro synphatheizers feel they just deserve to win. Anytime an okw nerf is brought up. Brain dead faction that skilless people can play and i refuse to play because of it.
I've talked with mods enough times, I know when I'm going overboard, I usually limit myself, but there is only so much tolerance I have for entitled, ignorant fucks like you
I don't play this version of EZ mode very often because it's so boringly simple. But it is funny to see the Axis circle jerk with people complaining that the one faction with every crutch in the book is some how underpowered lol.
The idea that the Jackson needed ANY nerfing is so laughable. It only serves ONE task, how dare it be good at that. If it were a good against infantry like the Panther, King Tiger, Panzer IV, Jagtiger, Elefant, I could see how it might be a problem and need a nerf but it's not
Haha the votes on this alone show the euro synphatheizers feel they just deserve to win. Anytime an okw nerf is brought up. Brain dead faction that skilless people can play and i refuse to play because of it.
u deserve to lose if u don't have an Ele when there's an ISU.
Just stay out of topics u have no knowledge of, Latch.
Ranked, I only play USF. Wouldn't be caught dead playing Nazis with some sort of record being taken
I've talked with mods enough times, I know when I'm going overboard, I usually limit myself, but there is only so much tolerance I have for entitled, ignorant fucks like you, and wouldn't be surprised to be hit again, but I'm fed up with this bullshit and honestly, the sole fact that I'm not permad is what keeps me here having discussions about the game I like and yes, I do question myself why I still go back here to this free range insane asylum so often.
I've talked with mods enough times, I know when I'm going overboard, I usually limit myself, but there is only so much tolerance I have for entitled, ignorant fucks like you
15 Aug 2020, 10:25 AM
#24
Posts: 518
[...]
One thing I also want to mention is that upgrading the schreck would make the unit pretty much useless in AI, so it would not be a no brainer move.
But some testing should definitely be done ( maybe the repair speed buff removal would work out after all ? )
Haha the votes on this alone show the euro synphatheizers feel they just deserve to win. Anytime an okw nerf is brought up. Brain dead faction that skilless people can play and i refuse to play because of it.
Playing with randoms
Haha the votes on this alone show the euro synphatheizers feel they just deserve to win. Anytime an okw nerf is brought up. Brain dead faction that skilless people can play and i refuse to play because of it.
I've talked with mods enough times, I know when I'm going overboard, I usually limit myself, but there is only so much tolerance I have for entitled, ignorant fucks like you
The idea that the Jackson needed ANY nerfing is so laughable. It only serves ONE task, how dare it be good at that. If it were a good against infantry like the Panther, King Tiger, Panzer IV, Jagtiger, Elefant, I could see how it might be a problem and need a nerf but it's not
Haha the votes on this alone show the euro synphatheizers feel they just deserve to win. Anytime an okw nerf is brought up. Brain dead faction that skilless people can play and i refuse to play because of it.
I've talked with mods enough times, I know when I'm going overboard, I usually limit myself, but there is only so much tolerance I have for entitled, ignorant fucks like you
I don't play this version of EZ mode very often because it's so boringly simple. But it is funny to see the Axis circle jerk with people complaining that the one faction with every crutch in the book is some how underpowered lol.
The idea that the Jackson needed ANY nerfing is so laughable. It only serves ONE task, how dare it be good at that. If it were a good against infantry like the Panther, King Tiger, Panzer IV, Jagtiger, Elefant, I could see how it might be a problem and need a nerf but it's not
Haha the votes on this alone show the euro synphatheizers feel they just deserve to win. Anytime an okw nerf is brought up. Brain dead faction that skilless people can play and i refuse to play because of it.
u deserve to lose if u don't have an Ele when there's an ISU.
Just stay out of topics u have no knowledge of, Latch.
Ranked, I only play USF. Wouldn't be caught dead playing Nazis with some sort of record being taken
I've talked with mods enough times, I know when I'm going overboard, I usually limit myself, but there is only so much tolerance I have for entitled, ignorant fucks like you, and wouldn't be surprised to be hit again, but I'm fed up with this bullshit and honestly, the sole fact that I'm not permad is what keeps me here having discussions about the game I like and yes, I do question myself why I still go back here to this free range insane asylum so often.
I've talked with mods enough times, I know when I'm going overboard, I usually limit myself, but there is only so much tolerance I have for entitled, ignorant fucks like you
15 Aug 2020, 16:14 PM
#25
Posts: 498
Because they cost 170 and 200 MP and a Panzerschreck is also not a flamer. Currently the Panzerschreck gets almost never chosen ( unlike flamer ) althought it is the only non doc infantry anti tank weapon OKW gets ( besides raketen ). Also a flamer is good at AI , so you basically would have a good AI squad that could march over mines. A Sturmpio with Schreck + Sweeper is neither good at AI nor AT.
You missed a point here, the main reason why flamer engineers are more common than schreck sturmpios is because 1 sp squad is generally enough, while you need at least 2 of the other engineer squads for effective repair. So in their case you have room for sweeper on one squad and flamer on another.
CE and pios still have the problem that they are pretty much unable to gain veterancy once upgraded with sweepers, unless they get lucky grabbing a dropped weapon.
15 Aug 2020, 19:13 PM
#26
Posts: 518
You missed a point here, the main reason why flamer engineers are more common than schreck sturmpios is because 1 sp squad is generally enough, while you need at least 2 of the other engineer squads for effective repair. So in their case you have room for sweeper on one squad and flamer on another.
Maybe it is just me, but even when I have 2 Sturmpios I usually never ever get a Schreck on them.
Not only are 2 Sweepers better than one, but it also gives a buff to repair speed ( and even if the schreck also gives buff to repair speed ( as somone mentioned ) then the sweeper is the cheaper way to buff repair speed ) . Also why should I turn my unit into a bad AI and AT unit when I could preserve its AI capability?
CE and pios still have the problem that they are pretty much unable to gain veterancy once upgraded with sweepers, unless they get lucky grabbing a dropped weapon.
Don't really see a problem with that as those units are usually kept out of combat anyway. Or do vet gainst give buffs to repair speed ( no clue about that ) ?
Haha the votes on this alone show the euro synphatheizers feel they just deserve to win. Anytime an okw nerf is brought up. Brain dead faction that skilless people can play and i refuse to play because of it.
Playing with randoms
Haha the votes on this alone show the euro synphatheizers feel they just deserve to win. Anytime an okw nerf is brought up. Brain dead faction that skilless people can play and i refuse to play because of it.
I've talked with mods enough times, I know when I'm going overboard, I usually limit myself, but there is only so much tolerance I have for entitled, ignorant fucks like you
The idea that the Jackson needed ANY nerfing is so laughable. It only serves ONE task, how dare it be good at that. If it were a good against infantry like the Panther, King Tiger, Panzer IV, Jagtiger, Elefant, I could see how it might be a problem and need a nerf but it's not
Haha the votes on this alone show the euro synphatheizers feel they just deserve to win. Anytime an okw nerf is brought up. Brain dead faction that skilless people can play and i refuse to play because of it.
I've talked with mods enough times, I know when I'm going overboard, I usually limit myself, but there is only so much tolerance I have for entitled, ignorant fucks like you
I don't play this version of EZ mode very often because it's so boringly simple. But it is funny to see the Axis circle jerk with people complaining that the one faction with every crutch in the book is some how underpowered lol.
The idea that the Jackson needed ANY nerfing is so laughable. It only serves ONE task, how dare it be good at that. If it were a good against infantry like the Panther, King Tiger, Panzer IV, Jagtiger, Elefant, I could see how it might be a problem and need a nerf but it's not
Haha the votes on this alone show the euro synphatheizers feel they just deserve to win. Anytime an okw nerf is brought up. Brain dead faction that skilless people can play and i refuse to play because of it.
u deserve to lose if u don't have an Ele when there's an ISU.
Just stay out of topics u have no knowledge of, Latch.
Ranked, I only play USF. Wouldn't be caught dead playing Nazis with some sort of record being taken
I've talked with mods enough times, I know when I'm going overboard, I usually limit myself, but there is only so much tolerance I have for entitled, ignorant fucks like you, and wouldn't be surprised to be hit again, but I'm fed up with this bullshit and honestly, the sole fact that I'm not permad is what keeps me here having discussions about the game I like and yes, I do question myself why I still go back here to this free range insane asylum so often.
I've talked with mods enough times, I know when I'm going overboard, I usually limit myself, but there is only so much tolerance I have for entitled, ignorant fucks like you
15 Aug 2020, 22:43 PM
#27
Posts: 731
I always think it should have both upgrade.
IMO biggest problem is population，SP use 8 population，Soviet and Ost engineer use 5 pop so can have 2 or more squads easier，could one squad upgrade flamethrower other one upgrade sweeper.
USF RE could upgrade sweeper and pick up 2 weapon from racks
UKF too，and anvil tech，single engineer could have 1x LMG and 2x weapon and sweeper....
Or reduce SP population to 7，but Schreck upgrade same as other German AT infantry，100 ammo for 2x Schreck，I think it could work too
IMO biggest problem is population，SP use 8 population，Soviet and Ost engineer use 5 pop so can have 2 or more squads easier，could one squad upgrade flamethrower other one upgrade sweeper.
USF RE could upgrade sweeper and pick up 2 weapon from racks
UKF too，and anvil tech，single engineer could have 1x LMG and 2x weapon and sweeper....
Or reduce SP population to 7，but Schreck upgrade same as other German AT infantry，100 ammo for 2x Schreck，I think it could work too
16 Aug 2020, 03:09 AM
#28
Posts: 268
UKF and USF Pioneers can also equipped with Sweepers and Bazookas, so why shouldn't Sturmpioneers be able to be equipped with a Panzerschreck after upgrading them with Sweepers ?
At the moment Panzerschreck on Sturmpioneers is a rare sight anyways, because you usually get a minesweeper.
It wouldn't be even a OP combination ( in my opinion ) , as one single Panzerschreck is ... mediocre at best anyways and also takes 1/4 of the units AI DPS. And since the Sweeper also takes 1/4 again when being equipped it would mean that this unit would basically lose its AI capability in order to perform more as a Support unit.
If unit A has something, it doesn't mean that unit B should have it as well. This is the answer given to me by Axis fans for many comparisons. So stormioners don't have the right to get it all together.
Driver, let's get this show on the road.
16 Aug 2020, 05:39 AM
#29
Posts: 449
Some people have suggested to allow SPs to upgraded with a second package after Schwerer or Panzer Auth. That's probably the best solution since doctrinal flamethrower also locks out sweepers, making mines a pain in the ass for OKW in general.
16 Aug 2020, 05:57 AM
#30
Posts: 498
...
Yes, all engineer units gain repair bonuses with veterancy. This includes Sturmpios too, and while they are not too effective at an AT job with a single schreck, it does help them gain vet much faster.
16 Aug 2020, 07:05 AM
#31
Posts: 143
the 1x Schreck is basicly for leveling, not for destroying vehicles. I´m not sure when i saw Sturmpios destroy a tank/vehicle for the last time. Except maybe uc
17 Aug 2020, 15:38 PM
#32
Posts: 3423 | Subs: 1
Because they cost 170 and 200 MP and a Panzerschreck is also not a flamer. Currently the Panzerschreck gets almost never chosen ( unlike flamer ) althought it is the only non doc infantry anti tank weapon OKW gets ( besides raketen ). Also a flamer is good at AI , so you basically would have a good AI squad that could march over mines. A Sturmpio with Schreck + Sweeper is neither good at AI nor AT.
2X piat/zook Royals/Rear Echys are good at AT though, and they both can still carry a sweeper on top of that.
Now that the EFA sweepers come with repair speed buff I think it's okay that flamer + sweeper are still exclusive. Before that it was pretty silly given what you could get with Royals and Echys
17 Aug 2020, 19:18 PM
#33
Posts: 3029 | Subs: 3
At the moment Panzerschreck on Sturmpioneers is a rare sight anyways,
Not when you watch Rank 5000 OKW gameplay
18 Aug 2020, 03:14 AM
#34
Posts: 4928
2X piat/zook Royals/Rear Echys are good at AT though, and they both can still carry a sweeper on top of that.
Their pretty mediocre AT honestly. The penetration is junk, they struggle to break through the front of an Ostheer Panzer IV. Even Elite Bazooka's against an OKW Panzer IV have only a 2/3 chance of penetration at point-blank range. Compare to a Panzershreck which is guaranteed to penetrate an a T-34/Sherman/Cromwell at max range. Honestly Anti-Tank Rifles might even be more reliable than Bazooka's because of their high accuracy and guaranteed deflection damage.
all you filthy hotchkiss lovers need to l2p #TeamPanzerIII
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18 Aug 2020, 08:05 AM
#35
Posts: 13496 | Subs: 1
all hand held at have deflection damage.
Honestly Anti-Tank Rifles might even be more reliable than Bazooka's because of their high accuracy and guaranteed deflection damage.
if in your opinion super bazzookas are not good you have probably never used bazzooka rangers.
18 Aug 2020, 09:58 AM
#36
Posts: 17914 | Subs: 8
all hand held at have deflection damage.
if in your opinion super bazzookas are not good you have probably never used bazzooka rangers.
Rangers are stock now?
Maybe it's 'cause the Axis players aren't a bunch of forum crybabies, and they keep their cool and fight the uphill battle, unlike some of their "allied" counterparts.
18 Aug 2020, 10:28 AM
#37
Posts: 13496 | Subs: 1
Rangers are stock now?
PLS starting reading before quoting and responding. this is what I responded to:
...
Even Elite Bazooka's against an OKW Panzer IV have only a 2/3 chance of penetration at point-blank range. ...
18 Aug 2020, 15:12 PM
#38
Posts: 1351
Their pretty mediocre AT honestly. The penetration is junk, they struggle to break through the front of an Ostheer Panzer IV. Even Elite Bazooka's against an OKW Panzer IV have only a 2/3 chance of penetration at point-blank range. Compare to a Panzershreck which is guaranteed to penetrate an a T-34/Sherman/Cromwell at max range. Honestly Anti-Tank Rifles might even be more reliable than Bazooka's because of their high accuracy and guaranteed deflection damage.
But even if they struggle they are a very cheap squad, and when you combine them with any other tank of your own or an at gun they will give You enough edge over Ur opponent. That is the real problem - they will deal more damage than You basically pay for. Having such cheap and potent units in Your unit mix makes it unbalanced. They can make all mines useless, are cheap to buy and reinforce, easy to vet, get the 5th men and can deal significant damage to tanks on top of being able to repair them. Axis don't have anything like that. When they had much more superior tanks it was fine. Now axis should have access to sth similar in their rooster as well to even it out.
(09.10.2019): "You really are a jewel to this forum" - feels proud, thank You
(24.03.2020): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p9PiqCeLEmM
(25.06.2020): http://www.companyofheroes.com/leaderboards#profile/steam/76561198035553470/standings
18 Aug 2020, 15:51 PM
#39
Posts: 3423 | Subs: 1
Their pretty mediocre AT honestly. The penetration is junk, they struggle to break through the front of an Ostheer Panzer IV. Even Elite Bazooka's against an OKW Panzer IV have only a 2/3 chance of penetration at point-blank range. Compare to a Panzershreck which is guaranteed to penetrate an a T-34/Sherman/Cromwell at max range. Honestly Anti-Tank Rifles might even be more reliable than Bazooka's because of their high accuracy and guaranteed deflection damage.
They're not mediocre at all, considering their price they're actually very strong. Both squads can become 5 men, which you can't say about ahreck squads except for doctrinal fusiliers
They're 200mp and 210mp squads. For that price + muni cost their AT is really good
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