Conscript Utility

Replacing cons in the late game is more problematic then other main lines. Having no upgrade to soften the pain. Vet0 cons vs vetted upgraded inf.. do the math.

I think making them cheaper to buy/replace late game is a good idea. Nothing drastic nothing that will hurt balance.

Why are people against the idea of DP upgrade at T4 for Cons? We can definitely adjust the price to make them more viable in late game if the cheap manpower is in question.

Why are people against the idea of DP upgrade at T4 for Cons? We can definitely adjust the price to make them more viable in late game if the cheap manpower is in question.

Because single horrible LMG for infantry that most clearly isn't suited for long range, stationary combat is overall a bad idea?

DP isn't the way to make cons demandable, because why would I want them anyway with DP, when I can just call guards?

Why are people against the idea of DP upgrade at T4 for Cons? We can definitely adjust the price to make them more viable in late game if the cheap manpower is in question.

Because the DP-27 is the worst machine gun in the game, which is why it costs 75 ammunition for two machine guns (37.5 ammunition for each) when the rest of the machine guns are 50-60 ammunition. If conscripts take
Obersoldaten MG-34 - they become very strong. One DP-27 is ridiculous, either buff DP-27 or need to look for other options - as like, a pair of sniper SVT / Mosin or other options.

Because single horrible LMG for infantry that most clearly isn't suited for long range, stationary combat is overall a bad idea?

DP isn't the way to make cons demandable, because why would I want them anyway with DP, when I can just call guards?

Didn't think of that. SVT's and one DP28 instead maybe?

Or just make them cheaper with every tier you build? So by the late game they are affordable cannon fodder for piling onto VPs etc.

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Or just make them cheaper with every tier you build? So by the late game they are affordable cannon fodder for piling onto VPs etc.

That is a one great idea. +1

Didn't think of that. SVT's and one DP28 instead maybe?

Or just make them cheaper with every tier you build? So by the late game they are affordable cannon fodder for piling onto VPs etc.

I don’t know your style of play, but the cannon fodder annoys me, I want to see my units reliable and competitive with other similar units from other factions and not cannon fodder to capture the Victory Point.

I don’t know your style of play, but the cannon fodder annoys me, I want to see my units reliable and competitive with other similar units from other factions and not cannon fodder to capture the Victory Point.

soviets have the luxury to have a choice between cannon fodder (conscripts) and reliable, competitive with other similar units from other factions(penals).

soviets have the luxury to have a choice between cannon fodder (conscripts) and reliable, competitive with other similar units from other factions(penals).

Wehrmacht also has this opportunity - osttruppen. But as I said above - I don’t need cannon-fodder, I need effect units that will be useful and get the maximum veterancy. Conscripts are not effective, they are bad even as a support squad - their only useful to throw an anti-tank grenade.

Make an 'anvil sappers' style upgrade for cons, something like "advanced combat training" or use the 'frontoviki' idea that the campaign has at tier-4 that gives them an upgrade to stats and maybe 2 SVT rifles.

Not sure how that'd synergize with the PPSH package but whatever.

Wehrmacht also has this opportunity - osttruppen. But as I said above - I don’t need cannon-fodder, I need effect units that will be useful and get the maximum veterancy. Conscripts are not effective, they are bad even as a support squad - their only useful to throw an anti-tank grenade.

But ostruppin are doctrinal, just like concript Psshas

Wehrmacht also has this opportunity - osttruppen. But as I said above - I don’t need cannon-fodder, I need effect units that will be useful and get the maximum veterancy. Conscripts are not effective, they are bad even as a support squad - their only useful to throw an anti-tank grenade.

If they were cheaper you could afford to risk them which would up their attractiveness. Things like merge is great on paper but if you have a 5 man con squad trying to merge into a 2 man squad and somewhere a model is dropped you lose the con squad and it's very much required vet. It's not a risk worth taking which diminishes the use alot. And if they are cheaper you could afford to have them holding the line trying to tie up the enemy. You could afford to build another squad to cap crew weapons or just be more volume of fire. Keeping in mind currently if you can AND the enemy can, you lose out because the enemy could scrounge munitions to vastly improve the quality of those fresh recruits.

soviets have the luxury to have a choice between cannon fodder (conscripts) and reliable, competitive with other similar units from other factions(penals).

Meanwhile, both axis factions have the luxury of having competitive infantry for the exact same price as that "cannon fodder" or just slightly more expensive.

I'd rather have a cannon fodder that scales the one that is a meme.

Sorry, 240 mp is NOT "cannon fodder", even 200mp osttruppen are no longer expendable(they were when they had cost of 120mp) and infantry that is incapable of cost effective fighting will never be desirable, "dey got utility" is a meme, not argument, grens have a lot of utility themselves, yet they do get fuel free LMG upgrade.

Meanwhile, both axis factions have the luxury of having competitive infantry for the exact same price as that "cannon fodder" or just slightly more expensive.

I'd rather have a cannon fodder that scales the one that is a meme.

Sorry, 240 mp is NOT "cannon fodder", even 200mp osttruppen are no longer expendable(they were when they had cost of 120mp) and infantry that is incapable of cost effective fighting will never be desirable, "dey got utility" is a meme, not argument, grens have a lot of utility themselves, yet they do get fuel free LMG upgrade.

Could make their cost reduction somewhat more dramatic at later tiers to make them more replaceable.

Tbh the only real issue I would see would be con ppshs. But then again that would just shift the resource strain from manpower to munition and a short range dps bump on a squad with no vet wouldn't be too spooky I don't think

Meanwhile, both axis factions have the luxury of having competitive infantry for the exact same price as that "cannon fodder" or just slightly more expensive.

I'd rather have a cannon fodder that scales the one that is a meme.

Sorry, 240 mp is NOT "cannon fodder", even 200mp osttruppen are no longer expendable(they were when they had cost of 120mp) and infantry that is incapable of cost effective fighting will never be desirable, "dey got utility" is a meme, not argument, grens have a lot of utility themselves, yet they do get fuel free LMG upgrade.

I play all factions, and i cant see soviets beeing weak. I never said anything about other factions. Penals cost more than grens/volk, but they also perform well against them. I dont get your post.

I play all factions, and i cant see soviets beeing weak. I never said anything about other factions. Penals cost more than grens/volk, but they also perform well against them. I dont get your post.

Literally no one said soviets are weak.
Cons are.
Cons=! whole soviet faction.
Penals serve as replacement for mainline infantry, which cons are, penals/maxims should be supplemental to cons, not replace them completely.
Cons are backbone infantry with no backbone and if infantry is ineffective in combat and especially at scaling into late game, it will never be used, unless extremely cheap.

That's my point.

Meanwhile, both axis factions have the luxury of having competitive infantry for the exact same price as that "cannon fodder" or just slightly more expensive.

I'd rather have a cannon fodder that scales the one that is a meme.

Sorry, 240 mp is NOT "cannon fodder", even 200mp osttruppen are no longer expendable(they were when they had cost of 120mp) and infantry that is incapable of cost effective fighting will never be desirable, "dey got utility" is a meme, not argument, grens have a lot of utility themselves, yet they do get fuel free LMG upgrade.

You're right in saying that conscripts are weak but said weakness gets compensated by the insanely op T-70 and the extremely strong t34-85. Also conscript utility is far from a meme. Merge+flamethrower early on is insanely strong. Oorah gives you a positional advantage (that most people here wouldn't notice because they lack basic understanding of coh2 tactics) etc. etc.

Oorah is phenomenal! Idk why anybody would want to spend 60mu for a 1 time upgrade that improves damage output and concentrates damage on a single model at a time when they could run a bit quicker for 20mu a pop and proceed to deal the same damage as always but maybe from cover. Some people think that's not enough to compensate paying the same as the enemy for less but those people are crazy!

You're right in saying that conscripts are weak but said weakness gets compensated by the insanely op T-70 and the extremely strong t34-85. Also conscript utility is far from a meme. Merge+flamethrower early on is insanely strong. Oorah gives you a positional advantage (that most people here wouldn't notice because they lack basic understanding of coh2 tactics) etc. etc.

Oh, alright.

Can we nerf HMG42 or grens into the ground to the point where you're shooting yourself in the foot by getting it, because flame 251 has excellent, really bordering on op performance and StuGs are one of the most cost efficient units in game? You'll be forced to rush PGs or pidgeonholed into specific elite infantry doctrines almost every singular game just to stand a chance, but that's perfectly fine and I see no issue with it what so ever, because flame 251 and stugs.

Sorry, doesn't work that way.

While its always important to keep in mind what's behind the unit, if the unit itself is so bad that literally no one ever uses it, its in need of change, regardless what's behind it.

Merge+flamer is situational and you're better 9 out of 10 times just using flamer in M3.

Oorah is also situational since it had a spike up in the cost, while cons do not have weapon upgrade, soviets overall aren't exactly muni floating faction they were with almost everything costing muni now and more then before, plus in case of oorah you need to calculate yourself if its worth losing the potential DPS just to get behind the cover, plus its not like axis infantry doesn't have access to a sprint one way or another anyway.

The main infantry of the soviets is not the conscripts but the penals. The soviets have always been build around commander providing callins or weapon upgrades

incorrect how long have you been playing this game that you state penals are the main line? its only once they received there AT sachels they became popular. but im not here to give a history lesson.