Feedback for Commander Revamppatch

NKVD really needs a KV1. KV8 is overkill as the commander already has plenty of decent anti-inf options, but nothing to help them with late game armour, which is what it needs to round it off.

At the moment it's only ever going to be viable in team games.

New Urban Defence looks sweet! Good alternative to shocks with IS-2, and, finally, second commander with KV-2!

For the Defensive Doctrine perhaps you could add hull down to the Pak43 unlock, and call it a defence package. That way anyone who doesn't bother with the Pak43 will still get something useful out of the slot, plus it fits with the overall theme (and used to be part of the commander).

I would like to comment about the current state of ÖKW's Elite Armor:

- As you wrote in the patchnotes, the community is divided about Vehicle detection. Let me just say that i would like to see this ability replaced but not because it's not useful. It is.

But right now 4 of 5 commander slots are based on munition which is just to much.
Next problem: 4 of 5 abilities can only used in the later stage of the game when you have access to OKW's expensive tanks. Compar
Considering that the Sturmtiger can't one-shot allied mediums anymore (at least not in my tests) Elite Armor should give you a more powerfull ability in the O-4 CP area then vehicle detection.


Here are my suggestion:
1. !Vehicle detection! is moved to Overwatch doctrine and replaces "For the fatherland". This would fit in thematically very well; "FtF" is the least used and liked ability in overwatch anyway. (Overwatch in general is great)
2. Pls give Elite Armor a decent call- in instead of vehicle detection / or access to an other tank like the hetzer (Soviets "armored assault have T-85, air attack AND JS-2). This would make the doctrine way more attractive.

Thanks for your hard work! Keep on your great job.

There's an interesting unused Red Banner T-34/85 call-in that was originally intended to function similarly to Tiger Ace (reduced resource income after call-in) if I'm interpreting the voicelines correctly. "Our last reserves have been committed, Commander! Turn this battle around!" It might fit the NKVD commander's bill for late-game armor instead of the KV-8. That being said, I think many people believe that there should be less gimmicky Tiger Ace-like abilities, so RIP.

I'm also fairly certain the KV-8 is in the NKVD doctrine because scorched earth get it

1. !Vehicle detection! is moved to Overwatch doctrine and replaces "For the fatherland". This would fit in thematically very well; "FtF" is the least used and liked ability in overwatch anyway. (Overwatch in general is great)
2. Pls give Elite Armor a decent call- in instead of vehicle detection / or access to an other tank like the hetzer (Soviets "armored assault have T-85, air attack AND JS-2). This would make the doctrine way more attractive.

Thanks for your hard work! Keep on your great job.

I actually really like the idea of Signal Relay to Overwatch.

And also PANZERfusiliers for Elite ARMOR please.

I would like to comment about the current state of ÖKW's Elite Armor:

- As you wrote in the patchnotes, the community is divided about Vehicle detection. Let me just say that i would like to see this ability replaced but not because it's not useful. It is.

But right now 4 of 5 commander slots are based on munition which is just to much.
Next problem: 4 of 5 abilities can only used in the later stage of the game when you have access to OKW's expensive tanks. Compar
Considering that the Sturmtiger can't one-shot allied mediums anymore (at least not in my tests) Elite Armor should give you a more powerfull ability in the O-4 CP area then vehicle detection.

Signal relay:
- 50 muni cost
-20 sec active
-25 sec cd
- has a voiceline when you activate it.

About the point it has alot of muni ability in elite armor doc:
- repair cost 40 muni
- heat muni cost 45 muni
- Coordiante barrage from the officer cost 80 muni
So as you can see yes alot of abiltily, but they are all cheap. Its not like abitltiy with 180-200 muni cost.

About useful, before you get expensive tanks:
- You can see where the LV are repairing and then go sneaky with cloaked raktenwerfer to it
- You can see where the ambulance from usa is. This is an important information. Esp, when you go for walking stuka.
- Later ofc for the Sturmtiger and info for your team in teamgames.

So you can go for example mech: get a walking stuka and puma with heat muni into sturmtiger.
But i agree maybe this doc right now is for more teamgames and not 1vs1 main.
Tho it still could work in 1vs1 too.

Stormtroopers seem hard to put in right place. with stgs they're just glorified panzergrens, and people do not seem to like mp 40s either. I think how about flamethrower to them. Yes i know camo with flamer is stupid, but it would give them additional role as camper clearers. For example upgrade would give them one flamethrower and flame grenades, while losing their camouflage.

i think M-42 canister are a bit effective against teamweapon including MG meanwhile they missed their shot a lot against infantry which i think it's ok on that case

M-42 canister shot feels a bit funky. I know it's effective, I've seen it slowly chipping off infantry's health, but it seems that the shot cannot hit the ground, only cover, so shooting squads that are in the open looks weird. Some tracers for the shrapnel would be nice too, for additional visual feedback.

Ability itself seems okay, it can somewhat reliably deal damage to infantry even in cover. I don't like this direction for the M-42, but so far it seems efficient in this new anti-personnel role. It just needs some tweaking in graphics department.

commissar grenade also share the same hotkey as retreat point

Just throwing these out there:

Elite armor repair heals for 300 HP, after a 5 second delay for (?) munis and cannot be canceled.

Soviet self repair is 35 munis, has no delay, and no HP cap other then max HP, and can be toggled off incase of immediate danger.

Can we fix the disparity there? ^^^ Like at least let it be toggleable for OKW so you can at least start moving instead of just sitting there like a duck.

Next while using Soviet radio intercept, the Jaegar callin squad from German infantry company is called panzergrenadiers to the Soviet player. That's probably intentional but very odd.

Soviet repairs can -NOT- be toggled off in combat.
You're locked there, sitting like a duck when attacked.
It also cuts in half your current munis income.
Its hardly a flawless ability.

Now, regarding M-42, glad to see far pen buff, however I'm not convinced about canister shot, will have to play with it a bit more.

KV-2 is going in good direction, but as long as its shells in tank mode travel so slowly, it couldn't be any more irrelevant against armor.

Deflection damage doesn't matter if you can't hit anything that isn't detracked.

I actually really like the idea of Signal Relay to Overwatch.

And also PANZERfusiliers for Elite ARMOR please.

Agreed, maybe if Signal Relay is combined with something else...

But I also think that the PFs should be given more utility in the form of a vehicle only repair package? I mean, in Breakthrough you have their flares to use in a combination with the JT, in the USF Mech Company Cav rifles are pretty beefy when around vehicles with combined arms on, in Elite Armor if nothing is done for the repair ability then maybe this could be the answer, I would still prefer the Soviet crew repairs any day of the week tbh.

Ostheer - Defensive Doctrine
-We have read some feedback suggesting this doctrine is missing a change to make it a compelling pick. Some players wish to see the Pak43 replaced, however, others enjoy using it (and it is a thematic choice). We would like to see further feedback around the current version of this doctrine.

I'd love to see the Pak43 replaced by an Elefant. 43s are basically just giant stationary targets, whereas the Elefant is (just about) a mobile 43 that is a lot easier to keep alive. It might seem weird to have two tanks on a defence commander, but the Elefant isn't even remotely meant for aggressive offence attacks, it's basically a tank sniper.

No dont replace the Pak43 with an Elephant, although the Pak gets destroyed most of the time this doctrine is designed in a stationary defensive way. Even though the Elephant is not the fastest vehicle it is still a mobile tank destroyer. I think it is more fitting to keep the Park43 design-wise.

While we are at it, I do not get at all what the Stug E is doing in this doctrine? I'd rather have an Artillery Field officer (to provide auras to weak osttruppen) or another stationary gun like the LFH artillery piece.

Agreed, maybe if Signal Relay is combined with something else...

But I also think that the PFs should be given more utility in the form of a vehicle only repair package? I mean, in Breakthrough you have their flares to use in a combination with the JT, in the USF Mech Company Cav rifles are pretty beefy when around vehicles with combined arms on, in Elite Armor if nothing is done for the repair ability then maybe this could be the answer, I would still prefer the Soviet crew repairs any day of the week tbh.

I like the idea of adding Panzerfusiliers into Elite Armor. This would instantly give the team a chance to change that unit's problemetic usage (I'll explain below*). Panzergrenadiers call-in would be another option as that would give the OKW a much-needed option for proper hand-held AT (a strategic choice in the current TD meta that OKW otherwise doesn't have).
Perhaps the Pgrens/250HT call-in can be used.

Signal relay could perhaps be added to the Panzer Commander or Emergency Repairs (turn it an improved vehicle package ability). In that case maybe trade the map-wide aura for a vicinity-wide aura around the vehicle.



*Panzerfusiliers are awkward to use because over time they have been nerfed to mainline infantry which isn't bad, but they still have a relatively high CP (2) requirement. You want them as an alternative to Volks, but you can't get them until 2CP. This creates awkward build orders as you need Volks for the early game but then you don't have room left for Panzerfusiliers.

I would like to see them changed to 0-1CP so they can become a strategic choice: Panzerfusiliers start with the AT-grenade unlocked and need tech for the AI grenade. Volks start with the AI grenade and need tech to unlock the Panzerfaust. Panzerfusiliers would be great when early light vehicles are expected. Volks would be the choice if mainly infantry is expected.

Alright, so I'm leaning towards current M-42, its still weak, but its pretty flexible now and can support and punish infantry reasonably well, but without any wipe potential.

KV-2 however, ohhh yisss, that piece of armor is FINALLY worth its price and I love how it is not longer a piece of steaming trash in tank mode.

Also because it's not in the patchnotes I'm reposting this for exposure as I'm not sure the original post was noticed before the M42 discussion took over: Elite Armor's Panzer Commander's Artillery Barrage is pretty broken against enemy tanks. See below.

Panzer Commander
-Artillery Barrage delay from 3 to 0.
-Now increases main gun accuracy by 10%.
-CP Requirement from 8 to 5.

I tested this a bit. I think the artillery barrage as it is right now is very useful in deterring infantry blobs or AT guns. Definitely helps a lot to make the Panzer Commander worth it over the pintle MG.


However, it seems way too powerful against enemy armor. If the barrage hits in full, it does up to 60-80% health damage on superheavies like the ISU-152 and IS-2 and can potentially 'one-shot' mediums and TDs (and the Pershing). Even if poor micro on the enemy's side is to blame, losing (heavy) armor to an 80 munitions ability seems unjust. I would suggest to lower the damage to vehicles or spread out the shells a bit more.

See image below. Both ISU-152 and IS-2 are struck by one single Artillery Barrage by the Panther and lost a very significant amount of health. In the same test, Firefly and Jackson were killed instantly. Pershing was killed/abandoned instantly. SU-100 and T-34-85 survived with about 5-10% health. All tanks were 100% HP before getting hit by 1 single Artillery Barrage.

(T-34-85 was accidentally shot by spawning Jackson)

I like the idea of adding Panzerfusiliers into Elite Armor. This would instantly give the team a chance to change that unit's problemetic usage (I'll explain below*). Panzergrenadiers call-in would be another option as that would give the OKW a much-needed option for proper held-held AT (a strategic choice in the current TD meta that OKW doesn't have). Perhaps the Pgrens/250HT call-in can be used.

Signal relay could perhaps be added to the Panzer Commander or Emergency Repairs (turn it an improved vehicle package ability). In that case maybe trade the map-wide aura for a vicinity-wide aura around the vehicle.



*Panzerfusiliers are awkward to use because over time they have been nerfed to mainline infantry which isn't bad, but they still have a relatively high CP (2) requirement. You want them as an alternative to Volks, but you can't get them until 2CP. This creates awkward build orders as you need Volks for the early game but then you don't have room left for Panzerfusiliers.

I would like to see them changed to 0-1CP so they can become a strategic choice: Panzerfusiliers start with the AT-grenade unlocked and need tech for the AI grenade. Volks start with the AI grenade and need tech to unlock the Panzerfaust. Panzerfusiliers would be great when early light vehicles are expected. Volks would be the choice if mainly infantry is expected.

The 250 PG call-in you say?

Then yes maybe that's a better option, they'll finally look at the 250 in that case.

But I have another idea.

Signal Relay gets combined with Crew repairs and
Panzer Commander gets combined with Panzer Tactician.

I would combine HEAT rounds with something else then but I don't know what but then again it might be a tad too much.

That would open up room for another call in and yet give the much needed Panzer Tactician to the OKW while still retaining signal relay for those that want to use it.

I've tested KV-2 (playing with, and playing against). Oh boy, oh boy, they're fun units to play with and play against. You guys hit the right spot with these changes, albeit the slow shell speed that should be faster. Now all you have to do is do the same trick with the ISU152 and JT.

That would open up room for another call in and yet give the much needed Panzer Tactician to the OKW while still retaining signal relay for those that want to use it.

I would like Panzer Tactician too, but seeing how "The balance team has deliberated on a couple of options which ultimately we decided not to include" [on the subject of replacing Signal Relay] I'm assuming the team considered PT and concluded it would not be fit for implementation.