December Balance Preview

I might have missed it in patch notes, but is there a chance to standarize panzerfaust grid hotkey? And make it the same for Grens/Volks etc.?

The Panther needs a very small tweak and I hope the balance team gets it right. But it's not that bad as people say it is.

So the thing is, this was originally supposed to help team games become balanced. Lots of units that do not even surface in 1v1s turn the tide in 3v3s+. Panther is one such unit. In a 1v1 it is murder to stall until t4, so the Panther naturally underperforms when you consider the tech costs involved. In a team game you have more or less the same amount of territory points to fight over, but 4 times more people going at it. Having a mobile kampfgruppe of Panthers is practically uncounterable for cost by the Allies.

Now, I am not saying that the Panther is in a good place or that it should be nerfed into the ground. Frankly I can think of no solution that would equally please 1v1 players and 4v4 players. So keep that in mind. Just offering perspective.

I feel that the Panther was not nerfed based on its 1v1 performance, but based on the fact that a flock of Panthers roaming the battlefield are a hallmark 4v4 strat.

When there is only 1 Panther (which is usually the case in 1v1s), if you snare it, you can at least exploit it. In a 4v4 you cannot dive to kill it with tank destroyers (since the other Panthers and God knows what else will pounce on you) which means damaged panthers can keep reversing with its monstrous frontal armour. Which translates into a lot of veteran Panthers roaming the battlefield at the 35 minute mark, and that is usually followed by a "gg" typed into the all chat by the allied team..

So the thing is, this was originally supposed to help team games become balanced. Lots of units that do not even surface in 1v1s turn the tide in 3v3s+. Panther is one such unit. In a 1v1 it is murder to stall until t4, so the Panther naturally underperforms when you consider the tech costs involved. In a team game you have more or less the same amount of territory points to fight over, but 4 times more people going at it. Having a mobile kampfgruppe of Panthers is practically uncounterable for cost by the Allies.

Now, I am not saying that the Panther is in a good place or that it should be nerfed into the ground. Frankly I can think of no solution that would equally please 1v1 players and 4v4 players. So keep that in mind. Just offering perspective.

I feel that the Panther was not nerfed based on its 1v1 performance, but based on the fact that a flock of Panthers roaming the battlefield are a hallmark 4v4 strat.

When there is only 1 Panther (which is usually the case in 1v1s), if you snare it, you can at least exploit it. In a 4v4 you cannot dive to kill it with tank destroyers (since the other Panthers and God knows what else will pounce on you) which means damaged panthers can keep reversing with its monstrous frontal armour. Which translates into a lot of veteran Panthers roaming the battlefield at the 35 minute mark, and that is usually followed by a "gg" typed into the all chat by the allied team..

I am with you my friend, agree 100% with what you said.

In a 1v1 it is murder to stall until t4

This is fundamentally the thing that bugs me about Ostheer. It's the one faction that's expected not to reach the end of its tech tree in 1v1 (ignoring USF Armour Company/stall-until-Pershing shenanigans, but it's still viable to tech Major in 1v1). It'd be like if Soviets were expected to cap out at T-70s and SU-76Ms, or if the OKW was expected to cap out at Luchs and Pumas.

It's a design flaw, nothing more, and I can only hope it can be addressed within the scope of this patch.

This is fundamentally the thing that bugs me about Ostheer. It's the one faction that's expected not to reach the end of its tech tree in 1v1 (ignoring USF Armour Company/stall-until-Pershing shenanigans, but it's still viable to tech Major in 1v1). It'd be like if Soviets were expected to cap out at T-70s and SU-76Ms, or if the OKW was expected to cap out at Luchs and Pumas.

It's a design flaw, nothing more, and I can only hope it can be addressed within the scope of this patch.

I don't know why Relic doesn't want to change resource/price management in different game modes. They have stated a few times that they will not change price and resources in different game modes and it doesn't make any sense to me. Just make panther a lot more expensive, or change its Popcap in 3v3 and 4v4.

A question from the balance team, do you think it is feasible to change price and popcap in team games? From a balance/design standpoint, why do you think Relic is opposed to this idea?

I See some problem Ostheer Storm Doctrine
Have Ambush camo and Tactical Advance

In DBP 1.5 mix it for Revamp Jager Inf and add Jader commander Squad

but now Storm Have 4 Ability now
How to fix This ?

I See some problem Ostheer Storm Doctrine
Have Ambush camo and Tactical Advance

In DBP 1.5 mix it for Revamp Jager Inf and add Jader commander Squad

but now Storm Have 4 Ability now
How to fix This ?

cons have oorrah, faust,merge, molotovs and building as standard abilitys..

cons have oorrah, faust,merge, molotovs and building as standard abilitys..

Storm Doctrine not Stormtrooper

cons have oorrah, faust,merge, molotovs and building as standard abilitys..

Plus they can repair tanks with some meta doctrines.

I really like the love that is being given to soviet elite infantry and think that it is great that the "tripwires for everyone" vet1 ability is becomming more specialized.

Having said that the shock troops vet1 ability strikes me an incredibly weak compared to pretty much any other vet1 ability in the game.

What do you think about perhaps instead making their vet1 ability a seperate cooldown for the grenades? I think this would make the shock troops a lot better at forcing repositions of mg-nests whilst not making it overly powerful as it would still be quite situational.

So the thing is, this was originally supposed to help team games become balanced. Lots of units that do not even surface in 1v1s turn the tide in 3v3s+. Panther is one such unit. In a 1v1 it is murder to stall until t4, so the Panther naturally underperforms when you consider the tech costs involved. In a team game you have more or less the same amount of territory points to fight over, but 4 times more people going at it. Having a mobile kampfgruppe of Panthers is practically uncounterable for cost by the Allies.

Now, I am not saying that the Panther is in a good place or that it should be nerfed into the ground. Frankly I can think of no solution that would equally please 1v1 players and 4v4 players. So keep that in mind. Just offering perspective.

I feel that the Panther was not nerfed based on its 1v1 performance, but based on the fact that a flock of Panthers roaming the battlefield are a hallmark 4v4 strat.

When there is only 1 Panther (which is usually the case in 1v1s), if you snare it, you can at least exploit it. In a 4v4 you cannot dive to kill it with tank destroyers (since the other Panthers and God knows what else will pounce on you) which means damaged panthers can keep reversing with its monstrous frontal armour. Which translates into a lot of veteran Panthers roaming the battlefield at the 35 minute mark, and that is usually followed by a "gg" typed into the all chat by the allied team..

I really think the only option is to nerf performance and decrease cost on a lot of axis 4v4 dominating units. Essentially units like the panther can't be made cost efficient with their current performance because than they would be game ending units. Or you could buff at guns but then that would screw over panzer 4 more than the current td spam meta already does and still makes tier 4 cost inefficient.

I really think the only option is to nerf performance and decrease cost on a lot of axis 4v4 dominating units. Essentially units like the panther can't be made cost efficient with their current performance because than they would be game ending units. Or you could buff at guns but then that would screw over panzer 4 more than the current td spam meta already does and still makes tier 4 cost inefficient.

I would agree with that statement, and with what drChengele wrote. Just by the nature of the dynamic between axis and allied tanks and the way they're priced really makes axis tanks overly cost efficient in teamgames IMO, since taking out any axis armor bigger than a p4 will almost always constitute losses on the allied side that usually far exceed the cost of the thin they just killed, especially in terms of manpower (especially especially if infantry are involved too, as they usually are). Add to this the fact that "minor armor losses" for an allied side in a team game is usually actually losing a (or multiple) tank, while situations of the same level for axis usually just mean them repairing a damaged panther, kt, etc.

And then there's the elefant and jagdtiger (at least they're getting nerfed this patch).

@Mr. Smith & @Miragefla

Any thoughts on nerfing the LMG34 when it's picked up by a non Obersoldaten squad? That weapon is an absolute monster on other squads for some reason.

@Mr. Smith & @Miragefla

Any thoughts on nerfing the LMG34 when it's picked up by a non Obersoldaten squad? That weapon is an absolute monster on other squads for some reason.

How much you want to be its weird ober specific infantry modifiers. Relic balancing ladies and gentleman making a rude goldberg machine of spreadsheets since 2006.

So the thing is, this was originally supposed to help team games become balanced. Lots of units that do not even surface in 1v1s turn the tide in 3v3s+. Panther is one such unit. In a 1v1 it is murder to stall until t4, so the Panther naturally underperforms when you consider the tech costs involved. In a team game you have more or less the same amount of territory points to fight over, but 4 times more people going at it. Having a mobile kampfgruppe of Panthers is practically uncounterable for cost by the Allies.

Panther's veterancy is what makes it a real problem in team games. It gets Blitz, armor/HP and reload speed.

It is easy to rank it up due to the fact that chasing is not an option in 4vs4 so the monstrous armor can usually back out despite driving into tank-destroyers and AT weapons. The panther might not kill your tanks, but it will always penetrate where all but tank destroyers are going to bounce a lot.

Panther (in team games) is a beast because:
• High Mobility
• Heavy Tank stats
• Tank Destroyer (50 range)
• Ok anti-infantry
• Spammable
• Hard to vet-up against it

Panther renders all ally generalist tanks (T34 85, E8 and even Comet) obsolete because only AT weapons/tank destroyers can reliably penetrate Panther's front armor.

The solution could be making the popcap 22/24 or giving it veterancy bonuses like Comet's (Vet 1 Blitz, Vet 2 Targeting bonuses, Vet 3 additional mobility).

Panther's veterancy is what makes it a real problem in team games. It gets Blitz, armor/HP and reload speed.

It is easy to rank it up due to the fact that chasing is not an option in 4vs4 so the monstrous armor can usually back out despite driving into tank-destroyers and AT weapons. The panther might not kill your tanks, but it will always penetrate where all but tank destroyers are going to bounce a lot.

Panther (in team games) is a beast because:
• High Mobility
• Heavy Tank stats
• Tank Destroyer (50 range)
• Ok anti-infantry
• Spammable
• Hard to vet-up against it

Panther renders all ally generalist tanks (T34 85, E8 and even Comet) obsolete because only AT weapons/tank destroyers can reliably penetrate Panther's front armor.

The solution could be making the popcap 22/24 or giving it veterancy bonuses like Comet's (Vet 1 Blitz, Vet 2 Targeting bonuses, Vet 3 additional mobility).

its not the job from allie medium armor to defend vs a panthers horde.
(but 10 comets will be ok vs 8 panthers)

to defend vs a panther horde is not that hard:

- put mines around the main streets (panthers in tiny streets/ towns are unbelievable bad to micro...they will clumb around inneffectivly/ you cant retreat, because the will stay in their own way)

- have the same amount of TDs on the field like panthers ...in a focus spot to react

- have recon to see where they are

- equip infantery with zooks and faust when they attack..a slow panther is easy target

- settle some 17p from brits in key positions



most axis player drive around with 3-4 panthers..4-5 TDs will eat them (the first goes down with the first volley in 2 secounds)

its not the job from allie medium armor to defend vs a panthers horde.
(but 10 comets will be ok vs 8 panthers)

to defend vs a panther horde is not that hard:

- put mines around the main streets (panthers in tiny streets/ towns are unbelievable bad to micro...they will clumb around inneffectivly/ you cant retreat, because the will stay in their own way)

- have the same amount of TDs on the field like panthers ...in a focus spot to react

- have recon to see where they are

- equip infantery with zooks and faust when they attack..a slow panther is easy target

- settle some 17p from brits in key positions



most axis player drive around with 3-4 panthers..4-5 TDs will eat them (the first goes down with the first volley in 2 secounds)

you post so much bullshit every day. can see your stats please?

A panther doesn't penetrate what it doesn't hit in the first place.

A panther doesn't penetrate what it doesn't hit in the first place.

https://i.imgur.com/VR5weee.jpg

Seriously, why the hell is such an issue to make custom income for specific modes so panther can stop being shit at everything but not get spammed in teamgames ?

@Mr. Smith & @Miragefla

Any thoughts on nerfing the LMG34 when it's picked up by a non Obersoldaten squad? That weapon is an absolute monster on other squads for some reason.

That's probably because LMG34 already has beastly stats, even on Vet0 obersoldaten.