Relic FYI, UKF's emplacements are useless due to ISG's

+1 pretty much Brits are unplayable right now.

ye brits are so unplayable last time i checked coh2charts they were most played faction in all game modes and had a pretty good winrate (atleast 15% higher than okw or ostheer). but yeaah, its so much unplayable that even in high skill tournaments they wont pick brits.

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was it commash who suggested emplacements to be uncountered by light arty but countered by direct assault and heavy arty.

+1 000 000 to that

Yes let me attack with anti-infantry emplacement with my infantry

Whoops they got shredded, I'll send the Puma

Nope it's dead too

+1 pretty much Brits are unplayable right now.

Against decent axis player I see no way you survive long enough to get to the centuar and when you do its counters are already there or you've lost soo much map control

If Brits were unplayable realistically, they would not have won any games in OCF or have a higher win ratio than both Axis factions.

They have their problems but they are in no way unplayable. I would possibly even argue they are fine but are overshadowed by how well soviets/usf are doing at the moment.

Also considering the centaur plays vs really good opponents that worked in OCF and has worked with top players vs top players, the problem of surviving that long lies with you, not the brits.

I mean for sure they are not even close to as OP as most people make it out to be, but they are a good faction that can beat both OKW and OST. If you think they are unplayable, the problem lies with you not the faction. Stop posting in balance 24/7 and try posting in state office and try to get better.

Current state of emplacements is terrible.

Before brace nerf it was hard to kill, yes, but it was easy to counter.
You did not need to kill it, to counter it.

One ISG/Mortar shooting at it was perfect counter.

Your mortar did not get any kills (shooting at emplacement) but on the other hand you forced emplacement to be on brace mode all the time so no kill for them.
It was simple and very good solution in my opinion.

1 unit shuting down another it perfect way.

Currently it's terrible.
No one will spend 400MP for immobile mortars which die fairly quickly once brace is down.

Bofors? Again, 1 mortar is enough to put it in brace mode.

It's like taking 3 units from Brits (that 17 pounder pop cap) which leaves them without mortars, mid game unit to hold the ground and without famous 17p.

Current early-mid game is dying.

No flamers to clear buildings (WASP will help until 222), no SMGs, no assaut rifles, no mortars, no smoke, no nades, no mid game unit to hold the ground (222, flamenwerfer, Stug E; 251/17, Puma, Luchs; Stuart, AA truck; Quad, T70).

This hole should be filled by Bofors or Armored Car but both are useless in current state, which leads us to desperate rush for Centaur because there is no other way to hold in front of HMGs and LMGs.

What's more, it's not like you can afford 400MP mortar pit

I'm still amazed how 2 mortars covered by sandbags, which cannot retreat are losing to 2 mortars on the open field, without any special cover

They should be hard to deal when using tanks or mortars, fairly easy when using late game arty like railway and very easy to infantry as a reward for getting so close.

Good post. Pretty much my thoughts exactly. In light of the Brace nerf, the Mortar Pit is entirely too squishy and usually feels like I just flushed 400MP down the toilet. Its lifespan is short and its field effect consists of getting 3 shots off before it is barraged nonstop by ISG, at which point I brace it, repair with Engineers (who die from splash), and then watch it slowly whittle down into a sad little crater.

Good post. Pretty much my thoughts exactly. In light of the Brace nerf, the Mortar Pit is entirely too squishy and usually feels like I just flushed 400MP down the toilet. Its lifespan is short and its field effect consists of getting 3 shots off before it is barraged nonstop by ISG, at which point I brace it, repair with Engineers (who die from splash), and then watch it slowly whittle down into a sad little crater.

how can ur mortar position have a short lifespan? did u ever play coh1? mortar emplacements are meant to build DEFENSIV, at a keypoint or ur cutoff. i really dont know how it can be destroyed before the 10min mark. (except from the LEIG because its as op as centaur, but even then ur mortar pit is probably to close to frontline.

how can ur mortar position have a short lifespan? did u ever play coh1? mortar emplacements are meant to build DEFENSIV, at a keypoint or ur cutoff. i really dont know how it can be destroyed before the 10min mark. (except from the LEIG because its as op as centaur, but even then ur mortar pit is probably to close to frontline.

Constant barrage from 1 or 2 ISG forces you to Brace to survive. I mean, that's the OP's entire point in this thread. And once Brace wears off, the emplacement is going down. Their HP is too low for what you pay.

The last one I made was on the center VP on the North side of Rails and Metal. I placed it defensively, next to MG and AT gun. But MGs and AT guns can do precisely zero against ISG barrage.

Constant barrage from 1 or 2 ISG forces you to Brace to survive. I mean, that's the OP's entire point in this thread. And once Brace wears off, the emplacement is going down. Their HP is too low for what you pay.

The last one I made was on the center VP on the North side of Rails and Metal. I placed it defensively, next to MG and AT gun. But MGs and AT guns can do precisely zero against ISG barrage.

oh just read the "due ISG", sorry. but they will get nerfed anyway so

maybe one way to fix them would be:

-build empty emplacements for MP and a little fuel (bofor/17pounder)

-they would need a squad inside of them to operate at all. squad cannot shoot out of it while operating it. maybe the squad would have to be at a minimum of 2-3 models (no snipers/1 man squads operating a 17pounder)

-said squad would get building cover (flames and some aoe weapons would be good to clear or dmg the squad inside = bleed)

-the emplacement itself would be very tough.

-they will take additional popcap while being operated (so its not free pop cap wise), but once the squad leaves the emplacement the pop cap returns back to 0. OR make them cost very little pop cap even if empty. they still need a squad to operate it, you know

-maybe some cooldowns before operating/leaving the emplacement would be required to avoid emplacement hopping

edit: they should only be useable by enemy inf if you could destroy them remotly while being empty
(unless you'd like to see falls/JLI/stormtroopers in every game where brits use emplacements)

TL;DR brit emplacements should work similar to usf vehicles

That's actually a really good idea - treat the emplacements like bunkers (i.e. they are built unmanned) and have a squad man them (and thus be able to decrew them if needed), or simply have it so they can be demolished if no longer needed (which takes time to avoid abuse).

As for the USF vehicles, I don't have the Western Armies expansion but what is the idea behind that? What advantage does it give to be able to leave your vehicle and why do only the USF do this?

i guess what i'll say about emplacements is that in team games i don't get them (or the AEC/bofors upgrade) because it costs fuel and i want to build tanks as fast as possible. i don't build the mortar pit because i always forget about it.

No, it won't kill ISG that's wrong. Because ISG outranges the mortar pit and kills it at ease. If their ranges were similar would have been more fair, but no, ISG kills mortar pit without receiving any damage.

Incorrect. Mortar pit has 115 range. Vet 0 ISG has 100 range.

Emplacements should be like they were in vCoH

Mortar pit should get a nerf but be cheap enough to build early game just like old brits.

Emplacements should be like they were in vCoH

Mortar pit should get a nerf but be cheap enough to build early game just like old brits.

Old Brits isn't an inspiration we should be taking, that's what got new Brits in this mess in the first place, Relic using old Brits as an outline for new Brits.

I like all these "Brits unplayable early-mid game posts"

Tell Aimstrong that ^^. I'm sure he has something to say about it in OCF.

But yeah, UKF emplacements are best used in holding the line, aggressive placements won't cut it.

I like all these "Brits unplayable early-mid game posts"

Tell Aimstrong that ^^. I'm sure he has something to say about it in OCF.

But yeah, UKF emplacements are best used in holding the line, aggressive placements won't cut it.

This is wrong assumption.

If someone can make rubik's cube in less than 1min, does it mean it is possible for everyone? No.
It is still hard do to for more people and few who can do it in 1min cannot change it.
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I like Brits in 1v1 but there are really serious problems.

Recently I had a game on Arnhem agasint OST.

PURE MG SPAM, like 4 MGs.

I took middle builings, bleed him a bit, but finally my IS cannot sit there for ages and I needed to reinforce them. He turned it to his advantage and put 4 MGs in the every single house.
And here comes the tricky part.
How to get rid of 4 MGs covering each other?
(Finally I won, but all becasue of beloved Centaur)
As USF you have smoke&nades, AA truck, Stuart, Pack howie, Assault Engis, MHT.
As Soviets you have SU76 barrage, T70, Quad, Engis, Shocks, Penals, mortars, even Cons molotovs.
As OST Pios, Assault Grens, Rifle nades, Flamenwerfer, 222, Mortar, MHT.
As OKW, SP (they are not perfect but once get close to the building, they can quite easily punish any early game unit inside), Volks' nades, ISG, 251/17, Luchs.

Plenty ways to punish heavy camping in the builings.

So what do you have as Brits? WASP? Going to die to cross MG fire or 222, Commandos. That's all. 1 unit which is not perfect counter, and 1 expensive, quite late doctrinal.
No smoke, no indendiary nades, no SMGs/Assault Rifles, no mortars, no light AI vehicle/tank.

That's why Brits have to rush for Centaur to stay in game because there is no early-mid game unit like 251/17 or Stuart to keep them in game.

You even cannot use mortar cause once you build it, it can fight only around certain points and it's useless when enemy sits out of the range. How many mortars/bofors/AC have you seen during OCF? And how many times Brit player rushed for a Centaur?

There is a huge whole between early and late game for Brits.

Useless pit, bofors and AC make it only bigger.

You even can't afford for IS nades because you need all fuel for Centaur.
Point is, that sure, it is possible to handle such campy player but it requires damn more from you, than when you are playing any other faction with units which punish such gamestyle really heavy.
* doctrinal options.

"If someone can make rubik's cube in less than 1min, does it mean it is possible for everyone? No.
It is still hard do to for more people and few who can do it in 1min cannot change it."

Okay so you're complaining about a faction that hasn't been out for a month yet, so you haven't really had time to work it out. Meanwhile, Aimstrong has clearly worked it out (if he takes brits and wins all his ties except the Grand Final, he's doing something right) so emulating his play would be optimal.

My personal opinion is that you don't build UKF emplacements in 1v1s as the map is too small and it costs way too much in tech (unless if its some sort of city map in which case mortars all the way, that said, the mortars could do with a decrease in price or a single mortar emplacement could be good)

You also play defensively early-mid game, you don't really have good enough units to push with. As brits, I never try pushing early. Vickers and Tommies are pretty decent in holding the line. Only after you tech or get Centaurs then you push (or you be agro like Aimstrong is but not everyone has the micro or game sense to do it, I know I don't)

Its a bit like playing Ost against USF and Sovs, you try to defend as much as you can and often go for counter attacks against the two factions. Same would apply for the brits, push as many squads off and slowly advance.

In any case, Brit endgame >>> every other endgame (and thats not even considering ridiculously OP commanders with Crocs in them - Vanguard Ops is ridiculous), it could use better indirects for those Osties who want to build Ost Sim City.

The key thing to take out of Aimstrong's games is that its not impossible, you just got to change how you play and make it work that way.

I like Brits in 1v1 but there are really serious problems.

Recently I had a game on Arnhem agasint OST.

PURE MG SPAM, like 4 MGs.

I took middle builings, bleed him a bit, but finally my IS cannot sit there for ages and I needed to reinforce them. He turned it to his advantage and put 4 MGs in the every single house.
And here comes the tricky part.
How to get rid of 4 MGs covering each other?

Personally, I'd leave it to fighting at the flanks since 4MGs are really crappy when it comes to camping. Maybe put an MG at my cutoff but yeah thats it. If you come to a brick wall, sometimes, its better not to try to smash it.

I'd agree that UKF could do with better indirects, at the same time I don't want to see Sim City being viable in 1v1s.

IMO tho, if Brits earlygame is significantly improved (not saying just mortar pits), their endgame seriously needs to be toned down - the only thing justifying Brit endgame dominance is their poor aggressive earlygame. (If it comes to endgame, Centaur, Crommie, Firefly are a handful already, let alone Comets, Churchills, Crocs). Not to mention the Brit offmap is just simply ridiculous (costs a lot but if brits aren't getting Brens, then they can really float muni)

The problem is Brits have now zero option as basic indirect fire to counter mgs/static defense. ZERO INDIRECT FIRE OPTION
How the brits player is supposed to counter a static position such as mg?
Mortar pit? Sniper? nothing really
You just have to get 3 IS and hope to be able to flank etc which is not supposed to be the way combined arms should work.

The problem is Brits have now zero option as basic indirect fire to counter mgs/static defense. ZERO INDIRECT FIRE OPTION
How the brits player is supposed to counter a static position such as mg?
Mortar pit? Sniper? nothing really
You just have to get 3 IS and hope to be able to flank etc which is not supposed to be the way combined arms should work.

i can imagine sniper beeing good because of the small troop size of axis mg teams, 3 sniper shoots and he will lose the mg, so effectivily he needs to retreat every mg after 2 sniper shoots.

Very good arguement but

1st of all, Aimstrong is pretty much a fucking legend.

2nd. You should realize that Aimstrong has developed a style of play - @ legendary skill level - practising it against all the known, normal styles, while his opponents face off against his for the 1st time

and 3rdly. Brits rely on key units, considered borderline, or just plain OP, as they only option. One single style of play, centered on a over performing unit, was the save and grace of a single brave soul, who lost anyway. Well ok, that was OCF, we can use the croc cant we?

Anyway, thats my opinion about brits. I like your way of thinking but I really feel brits are in a very bad place in 1v1.

1st of all, Aimstrong is pretty much a fucking legend.

2nd. You should realize that Aimstrong has developed a style of play - @ legendary skill level - practising it against all the known, normal styles, while his opponents face off against his for the 1st time

and 3rdly. Brits rely on key units, considered borderline, or just plain OP, as they only option. One single style of play, centered on a over performing unit, was the save and grace of a single brave soul, who lost anyway. Well ok, that was OCF, we can use the croc cant we?

Anyway, thats my opinion about brits. I like your way of thinking but I really feel brits are in a very bad place in 1v1.

And how many times he built any emplacements?!!!

The point is how useless and waste of resource emplacements are at the moment