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russian armor

Dump Ost sniper into T2

1 Sep 2015, 10:54 AM
#21
avatar of Katitof

Posts: 17892 | Subs: 8

The whole idea of usability windows is flawed IMO.

This line actually applies exclusively to light armor, specifically all the scout cars as light tanks and reinforcement half trucks are still useful late game.

And irregulars.
And M-42.

All other units are pretty much useful at all stages of the game.
1 Sep 2015, 11:08 AM
#22
avatar of Firesparks

Posts: 1930

Tommies are also worse out of cover then grens, meaning in equal, non cover engagement, tommies lose to grens in the open.


actually, it looks like the tommies now get a penalty out of cover as well. this make they worst out of cover.
1 Sep 2015, 11:12 AM
#23
avatar of Katitof

Posts: 17892 | Subs: 8



actually, it looks like the tommies now get a penalty out of cover as well. this make they worst out of cover.

They don't really have penalty out of cover, they just forget how to hold and aim rifles when there isn't at least a tiny bush or twig near them.

In cover theirs DPS is barely higher then grens, out of cover its lower.

Their LMGs are ~30% worse out of cover then LMG42 and barely comparable in cover.

Relic insisted on making tommies expensive, effective infantry, they just forgot about the effective part and believe me, we did reminded them that a lot in alpha.

Basically, tommies have equal average performance as grens while having considerably higher costs to build and reinforce. They are NOT cost effective.
1 Sep 2015, 15:26 PM
#24
avatar of daspoulos

Posts: 1116 | Subs: 1

Permanently Banned
Tommies are also worse out of cover then grens, meaning in equal, non cover engagement, tommies lose to grens in the open.
Isn't that the point? To make you use cover? Like they get all those cover bonuses for a reason.
1 Sep 2015, 15:35 PM
#25
avatar of dasheepeh

Posts: 2115 | Subs: 1

Something definetly needs to be done bout the Ostheer sniper. It really isnt fun anymore. Atleast you can do something as Soviet or USF, but 1 Sniper shuts down Brit early game and 2 shut them down for good.
1 Sep 2015, 15:42 PM
#26
avatar of Rollo

Posts: 738

I remember reading a giant thread about the wehr sniper vs brits and their lack of counters on the alpha forums, a week later nothing was changed and relic said they were happy with the UKF balance
1 Sep 2015, 15:42 PM
#27
avatar of QueenRatchet123

Posts: 2280 | Subs: 2

Permanently Banned
Tommies are also worse out of cover then grens, meaning in equal, non cover engagement, tommies lose to grens in the open.


No they are not
1 Sep 2015, 15:42 PM
#28
avatar of dasheepeh

Posts: 2115 | Subs: 1

jump backJump back to quoted post1 Sep 2015, 15:42 PMRollo
I remember reading a giant thread about the wehr sniper vs brits and their lack of counters on the alpha forums, a week later nothing was changed and relic said they were happy with the UKF balance
:snfPeter:
1 Sep 2015, 15:43 PM
#29
avatar of dasheepeh

Posts: 2115 | Subs: 1



No they are not


yes they are
1 Sep 2015, 15:47 PM
#30
avatar of QueenRatchet123

Posts: 2280 | Subs: 2

Permanently Banned


yes they are


at 5 dudes no :sibHyena:
1 Sep 2015, 15:55 PM
#31
avatar of Esxile

Posts: 3600 | Subs: 1

Make Tommies non-sniperable while in green cover and increase shot missing value while in yellow cover. Just to reinforce the cover bonus system.
1 Sep 2015, 16:18 PM
#32
avatar of Alexzandvar

Posts: 4951 | Subs: 1


They don't really have penalty out of cover, they just forget how to hold and aim rifles when there isn't at least a tiny bush or twig near them.


Okay to clear some stuff up here Tommies accuracy will be the same no matter if you are in or out of cover. Out of cover you have increased cooldown and reload and when in cover you have decreased cooldown and reload.

The Bren is actually (slightly, still doing all the DPS formulas) better than the LMG42 due to having much less dramatic accuracy drop off, less time before reloading, and just straight up better damage. Basically in the things that count the most in the DPS formula the Bren has aces.

Basically your take away should be that you will be beating out Grens 1 on 1 with a large amount of reliability if you don't attempt to play hackysack with them at butt sniffing range 24/7. Stay out at range and in cover and you will do fine.

Of course this doesn't even get into Tommies having legit scary received accuracy for a 5 man squad once you upgrade....
1 Sep 2015, 19:16 PM
#35
avatar of Firesparks

Posts: 1930



Okay to clear some stuff up here Tommies accuracy will be the same no matter if you are in or out of cover. Out of cover you have increased cooldown and reload and when in cover you have decreased cooldown and reload.

The Bren is actually (slightly, still doing all the DPS formulas) better than the LMG42 due to having much less dramatic accuracy drop off, less time before reloading, and just straight up better damage. Basically in the things that count the most in the DPS formula the Bren has aces.

Basically your take away should be that you will be beating out Grens 1 on 1 with a large amount of reliability if you don't attempt to play hackysack with them at butt sniffing range 24/7. Stay out at range and in cover and you will do fine.

Of course this doesn't even get into Tommies having legit scary received accuracy for a 5 man squad once you upgrade....


trying calculating the bren's weapon dps instead of just looking at its individual stats.


They don't really have penalty out of cover

(to be completely straight laced)
actually, now they have a 30% cooldown and 50% reload penalty out of cover as well. I think the volks can probably beat the tommies if the tommies get caught out of cover.
1 Sep 2015, 20:13 PM
#36
avatar of RMMLz

Posts: 1802 | Subs: 1

Not necessarily agreeing with the notion of moving the sniper to T2, but regardless of that, the argument cuts both ways. British infantry sections are only buildable once there are plenty of counters available (MG42, sniper).

Applying this very same logic British Infantry should be given a chance to be on the field for a while before its hard counter is available. Therefore Sniper should come later.

If it's unfair for a Sniper to coexist with Allied light vehicles, then it is unfair for Tommies to coexist with German sniper.

My point is, units are plenty useful once there are counters on the field. The whole idea of usability windows is flawed IMO. A German sniper lasts well into the late game.

A fix is needed. Timing is not it.


On the contrary, I do believe in the window of effectiveness, but in another way. When new, and "better" units arrive, both for you and your enemy, you are gonna be busy microing them and you can't babysit other units, specially fragile units like 222, M20, M3 and... Sniper. But, this is greatly related to your skill level, so an average player like me will completely forget about a sniper and can not micro them effectively. This may or may not be true for you.

I also have to clarify that by this so called window of effectiveness, I mean the period in which you can utilize your units to their full potential, which is both related to your and your enemy's skill. So in our case, you can and should utilize your sniper early in the game, before units like M20 arrive. The arrival of hard counters will make it a lot harder for you to use the unit (Duh, Sherlock). It doesn't mean that the unit is obsolete though, as you stated.

Anyway, I'm not gonna argue and you're entitled to your opinion. All I'm saying is, since Ost sniper is kinda unfair versus Brits, I don't see any problems with moving Brit Sniper to T0. It not possible to spam it, it can counter Kuble rush, and it can be used to counter snipe.

1 Sep 2015, 20:27 PM
#37
avatar of Airborne

Posts: 281

Seriously, that's NOT funny in the alpha, and so as now.

100+
Great suggestion
1 Sep 2015, 20:45 PM
#38
avatar of Intelligence209

Posts: 1124

The British sniper is just fine. And iv seen him used effectively changing the tide in tank battles. As for tummies, in cover they scale very well. Cover vs cover against grens is a close fight. If
aaa
1 Sep 2015, 20:59 PM
#39
avatar of aaa

Posts: 1486

OH sniper is a bitch to kill.
1. it cloaks invisible in 1 sec at point blank range. WTF is that?
2. it almost doesnt care if squad fires at him

totaly broken unit, probably N2 broken unit after fuel-free, tech cost - free Ace bullshit.
1 Sep 2015, 21:24 PM
#40
avatar of BeefSurge

Posts: 1891

I agree OP.
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