USF and potential suggestions for its Design

A movement speed penalty would be fair and maybe the crew not being able to pop out. But I'd only support the latter if you got rid of all the other crazy requirements. If it's going to cost munitions, a fuel upgrade, and veterancy, and be limited to one, it had better be firing nuclear missiles. I think the best thing to do would just have it be an alternative purchase from the .50 cal upgrade, and cost 150-200 munitions. If you get lower speed and can't pop out the crew, I don't think people would spam them so much.

But in all honesty, I'm now just thinking the best solution would be to have the Calliope as its own unit, but still have a normal main gun that's a lot weaker than the standard Sherman's. Around the strength of the Panzer IV Command Tank (albeit a little weaker against infantry). I think that would make American artillery a lot more flexible, mobile, and unique to the faction, rather than making it like any other artillery-only platform.

I think it would be really interesting if it could actually fire on the move like the Scott, but have higher scatter while doing so.

I doubt it, you have a Sherman that can fire it's main gun and fire rockets. I think they will be spammed if you don't put up these requirements..

I agree with your second section, but the idea of purchasable upgrades gives so much room for diversion

I really don't like the idea of a Calliope in CoH2. It goes against all the designs for Artillery in the game thus far. Fragile, and unable to defend itself. The Calliope would be both durable and able to defend itself against infantry and vehicle attacks. And after it forces the infantry away, it can barrage the retreat point to wipe 'em. And counter-barraging would be ineffective because it's a medium tank, not exactly vulnerable to any Artillery. It's just too much in one package.

Plus the price, if we compare it's performance to the Sherman and Katyusha and get a price from that, it could easily reach 200 fuel. So if you only wanted artillery you're getting the short end of the stick. A Xylophone would be better: same rockets but mounted on a 2½-ton cargo truck.

Agreed, valid points indeed.

I really don't like the idea of a Calliope in CoH2. It goes against all the designs for Artillery in the game thus far. Fragile, and unable to defend itself. The Calliope would be both durable and able to defend itself against infantry and vehicle attacks. And after it forces the infantry away, it can barrage the retreat point to wipe 'em. And counter-barraging would be ineffective because it's a medium tank, not exactly vulnerable to any Artillery. It's just too much in one package.

Plus the price, if we compare it's performance to the Sherman and Katyusha and get a price from that, it could easily reach 200 fuel. So if you only wanted artillery you're getting the short end of the stick. A Xylophone would be better: same rockets but mounted on a 2½-ton cargo truck.

Who's to say the Calliope will actually be able to use its gun though?

Who's to say the Calliope will actually be able to use its gun though?

We were just making suggestions! So we suggested that. If you have any other thoughts, please do contribute!

Who's to say the Calliope will actually be able to use its gun though?

What's the point of having a Sherman with Rockets on it if it can't even Sherman? At that point you could just have a 2½-ton cargo truck with Rockets on it like the Xylophone.

This faction has soo many flaws it's really hard for me to point them all out and not taking an hour doing so.

Their Tiers are a mess, not a single unit is durable, they lack punch, extremly micro-intensive and most importantly they are a chore to play with.

Panzer Elite is slowly losing his place as the shittiest faction ever released by relic.

I doubt it, you have a Sherman that can fire it's main gun and fire rockets. I think they will be spammed if you don't put up these requirements..

I agree with your second section, but the idea of purchasable upgrades gives so much room for diversion

Yeah, that's why I think having it as its own unit would be better. Because an upgrade would either make it too spammable, or restrictions would make it nearly worthless.

If you make the Calliope its own unit with a weaker cannon, nobody is going to pay, I don't know, 150+ fuel for a weak tank unless they legitimately just wanted that much artillery in the first place.

Even if it does get a legitimately good main gun, just make it cost a lot of fuel so it can't be spammed. I think 175 fuel would be a fair asking price for a standard Sherman with a Calliope attachment.

What's the point of having a Sherman with Rockets on it if it can't even Sherman? At that point you could just have a 2½-ton cargo truck with Rockets on it like the Xylophone.

That's exactly how I feel. I never liked that the Calliope couldn't fire in vCoH. At that point, it might as well just be a Katyusha. Given that the Americans are about flexibility and mobility with all their units, I feel a Calliope that doubled as a decent-ish tank would fit their army theme well.

Although I don't disagree with you that it would be hard to balance. I'm thinking more conceptually at the moment, because it's hard to strike the perfect balance between tank and artillery piece just from a forum discussion alone.

What's the point of having a Sherman with Rockets on it if it can't even Sherman? At that point you could just have a 2½-ton cargo truck with Rockets on it like the Xylophone.

The Calliope can't die to one shot? I don't know, Relic must've just not thought of it. The decision has already been made though apparently, sooooo

That's exactly how I feel. I never liked that the Calliope couldn't fire in vCoH.

Oh in 2006 and early 2007 it could in vCoH. They eventually removed the ability to fire its gun, which it could while shooting a barrage, since the whine on the forums was so strong it was like every topic was nerf Calliope.

Riflemen scaling. And t4 Armor. I feel changes (not fuel changes) to the sherman, howi carriage, and jackson are needed. Riflemen scale very well in the early-mid game but afterwards become much harder to use in some situations. I would recommend scaling their early game down a little bit while buffing their late game at the same time.(via veterancy changes, squad formations, etc....). I know this might sound extreme, just throwing it out there, but I wouldn't mind seeing riflemen being 4 man squads at the start and then at vet 1 becoming 5 men squads with vet 2-3 veterancy changes allowing them to scale correctly towards the late game. Because if we tried buffing USF's early game anymore by changing m20 costs, hf costs(though i dont mind the mp change), etc.... it'll just be step 1 again.

Riflemen scaling. And t4 Armor. I feel changes (not fuel changes) to the sherman, howi carriage, and jackson are needed. Riflemen scale very well in the early-mid game but afterwards become much harder to use in some situations. I would recommend scaling their early game down a little bit while buffing their late game at the same time.(via veterancy changes, squad formations, etc....). I know this might sound extreme, just throwing it out there, but I wouldn't mind seeing riflemen being 4 man squads at the start and then at vet 1 becoming 5 men squads with vet 2-3 veterancy changes allowing them to scale correctly towards the late game. Because if we tried buffing USF's early game anymore by changing m20 costs, hf costs(though i dont mind the mp change), etc.... it'll just be step 1 again.

Agreed good sir.

Riflemen scaling. And t4 Armor. I feel changes (not fuel changes) to the sherman, howi carriage, and jackson are needed. Riflemen scale very well in the early-mid game but afterwards become much harder to use in some situations. I would recommend scaling their early game down a little bit while buffing their late game at the same time.(via veterancy changes, squad formations, etc....). I know this might sound extreme, just throwing it out there, but I wouldn't mind seeing riflemen being 4 man squads at the start and then at vet 1 becoming 5 men squads with vet 2-3 veterancy changes allowing them to scale correctly towards the late game. Because if we tried buffing USF's early game anymore by changing m20 costs, hf costs(though i dont mind the mp change), etc.... it'll just be step 1 again.

It sounds awesome. But Ostheer sniper

The USF only have two things to research in their T0 while the UKF and Soviets have 3. Giving the USF something to research that solves their MP bleed and reliance on munitions is also a really good idea. One of the below upgrades in the U.S.F. would help the Americans scale with the British power creep.

Motorize Logistics Upgrade
-Reinforcment of infantry requires 20% less Manpower and occurs 35% faster
-costs 250 MP and 50 fuel

Prioritize Supplies Upgrade
-weapon rack upgrades cost 25% less, abilities 30% less
-250 MP and 50 fuel

Defensive Tactics Upgrade
-Owner's territory takes 25% longer to be uncaptured by the enemy
-150 MP and 25 fuel

Offensive Tactics Upgrade
-enemy territory is uncaptured 25% faster
-150 MP and 15 fuel

Great concept; all factions could benefit from upgrades like these.

The USF only have two things to research in their T0 while the UKF and Soviets have 3. Giving the USF something to research that solves their MP bleed and reliance on munitions is also a really good idea. One of the below upgrades in the U.S.F. would help the Americans scale with the British power creep.

Motorize Logistics Upgrade
-Reinforcment of infantry requires 20% less Manpower and occurs 35% faster
-costs 250 MP and 50 fuel

Prioritize Supplies Upgrade
-weapon rack upgrades cost 25% less, abilities 30% less
-250 MP and 50 fuel

Defensive Tactics Upgrade
-Owner's territory takes 25% longer to be uncaptured by the enemy
-150 MP and 25 fuel

Offensive Tactics Upgrade
-enemy territory is uncaptured 25% faster
-150 MP and 15 fuel

I don't like the territory ones, but I really like the other two. That would help a lot with the riflemen bleed. I don't think I'd be willing to fork out 50 fuel for cheaper BARs and bazookas, though. By the time I'd get that, my squads would already have them.

I don't like the territory ones, but I really like the other two. That would help a lot with the riflemen bleed. I don't think I'd be willing to fork out 50 fuel for cheaper BARs and bazookas, though. By the time I'd get that, my squads would already have them.

Thanks. The muni one would allow to use smoke more and still afford muni for upgrades, plus late game replacements.

And yeah, the territory ones were really a stretch- I was trying to think of an upgrade that would make the USF worth at least one player in 3 vs 3 and 4 vs 4 teams.

I would add slightly buffing RE's Volley Fire or tweaking it somehow, maybe something like giving it a suppression bonus if they are in your own territory? (since they are 'rear' echelons after all.)

At the very least remove the received accuracy penalty when its active (pretty sure I read somewhere that Volley Fire has that). Anyway, REs die fast already and Volley Fire might as well have the RE stick their carbine in their own mouth. Anything to make them more useful and make different opening builds more viable.

Who's to say the Calliope will actually be able to use its gun though?

We were just making suggestions! So we suggested that. If you have any other thoughts, please do contribute!

This. In CoH, the Calliope used to have it's main gun, but Relic removed that ability because it was too OP. So, same trade off here, too. If you upgrade a Sherman to a Calliope, you lose the gun.

And the .50 cal definitely needs to be fixed as previously stated. MP, AP and the crew stacking.

It sounds awesome. But Ostheer sniper

USF has no actual counter to the sniper either way tbh.
Plus less bleed with fewer models.

USF has no actual counter to the sniper either way tbh.
Plus less bleed with fewer models.

You have won. I agree

• Americans were masters of artillery in WW2, so their lack of reliable arty in-game is out of place. Their lack of non-doctrinal heavy artillery needs remedy, because the pack howitzer just does not cut it. Either the Priest or a Calliope need to be in the American arsenal by default. Perhaps the standard Sherman could have a munitions upgrade for a Calliope attachment?
  
• The major is worthless as anything but a retreat point and the occasional arty barrage. Allow the ambulance to act as a retreat point by itself once the tank tier is unlocked. Either remove the major or completely change his role.
  
• Rear echelon troops need mines. Why isn't this in the game already? I can't believe they can't build them. And not those crappy 5-muni mines. Good ones. They should be able to build sandbags, too.
  
• Ambulance should heal passively if in base sector
  
• Americans need a tier 0 mortar.
  
• Put the 57mm in the tier 0 building but make it require either captain or lieutenant. Captain tier then gets a more expensive, higher damaging and higher-penetrating M5 3" AT gun. This is basically the same as having the mortar in tier 0, with the pack howitzer being an "upgrade" in the Captain tier.
  
• Please add rangers and/or a Thompson weapon rack
  
• Armor company's worthless Thompson vehicle crew upgrade could instead be changed to a Thompson weapon rack in place of the M1919
  
• M20 manpower cost is too high. AA halftrack manpower and fuel cost is also debatable, but understandable.
  
• When I pop out vehicles crews, I like to shift click them back into the vehicle so they'll re-embark when finished repairing. However, it takes a over a full second before you can do this. Fix that pudding!
  
• Increase the Sherman's penetration slightly. Not too much, just enough so it doesn't bounce off Panzer IV's all the time.
  
• Weapon crews need a received accuracy reduction, or 5 men. As of now, they get torn to ribbons too fast.
  

Perfect list here.

Mines and good arty are the two things I miss most from CoH1 USA. I loved going Infantry Doc and blowing the smithereens out of opponents with on and off-map howie blasts. The lack of RE mines is bizarre and leaves the infantry with less of a purpose when they are by themselves. There are SO many times I'd love to mine a road or fuel point to stall infantry advance, but as USF I can't. I have to play a game of putting out fires and constantly shifting my positioning.

I'll add to the list, Bazookas need a buff. More reliable penetration and slightly longer range, and good accuracy. Leave the dmg advantage for schrecks.

Major needs arty buff. It takes way too long to come down. All but the most narcoleptic opponents have time to dodge it.