Tuning Pack OKW P4
15 Jul 2015, 17:32 PM
#21
Posts: 1122
For design purpose. They should feel like fuel starved faction.
15 Jul 2015, 17:33 PM
#22
3 
Posts: 658
What is the point of starving the OKW for fuel if you're going decrease costs of tanks to compensate for it?
You can get tanks relatively fast but you can't replace them as easily as other factions.
15 Jul 2015, 17:33 PM
#23
Posts: 225 | Subs: 1
Go for Panther if you have AI covered, go for PIV is you have AT covered. More often than not you will need more AI as OKW if you went a doctrine without elite call in troops or don't want to waste time with Obers.
Good combo would be PIV with Fortifications.
You can't say that so easily,the thing the Panther lacks most is its low dps.
Panther is good against heavy tanks like an is2 or isu152 whereas P4 excels at fighting lighter tanks.
If you already have jp4 ,a few shreks or raketen i would rather go p4.
15 Jul 2015, 17:35 PM
#24
Posts: 4951 | Subs: 1
Serious question worth contemplating:
What is the point of starving the OKW for fuel if you're going decrease costs of tanks to compensate for it?
OKW tech costs the same as the other factions if you adjust the cost for the fuel penalty. It's the cost of the tanks that's the same as other factions already and thus they artificially cost more. This means that in 3v3 and 4v4 OKW is OP due to inflated income and suffers in 1v1 and 2v2 because your always going to have much less armor than the enemy will.
15 Jul 2015, 17:48 PM
#25
Posts: 17896 | Subs: 8
So there is someone who believes a 230 armor tank should not cost 135 fuel.
LEL.
LEL.
Maybe it's 'cause the Axis players aren't a bunch of forum crybabies, and they keep their cool and fight the uphill battle, unlike some of their "allied" counterparts.
15 Jul 2015, 17:59 PM
#26
Posts: 4951 | Subs: 1
So there is someone who believes a 230 armor tank should not cost 135 fuel.
LEL.
Due to the fuel penalty it costs only 30 fuel less than an IS2
15 Jul 2015, 18:02 PM
#27
Posts: 17896 | Subs: 8
Due to the fuel penalty it costs only 30 fuel less than an IS2
It still costs 135.
It just means you can't spam them.
Maybe it's 'cause the Axis players aren't a bunch of forum crybabies, and they keep their cool and fight the uphill battle, unlike some of their "allied" counterparts.
15 Jul 2015, 18:05 PM
#28
Posts: 4951 | Subs: 1
It still costs 135.
It just means you can't spam them.
The fact you can only have one PIV for every .87 IS2's or 1.4 T34/85's is pretty funny.
15 Jul 2015, 18:07 PM
#29
Posts: 2280 | Subs: 2
Permanently Banned
The fact you can only have one PIV for every .87 IS2's or 1.4 T34/85's is pretty funny.
Just like how you can have 4 fussiliers for every 5 rifles. Mybad, thats an axis unit so its fine.
There is no recording in all WW2 history of a piat actually knocking off a vehicle. Yes, it was THAT bad.
15 Jul 2015, 18:12 PM
#30
Posts: 600
Imo 135 fuel is too high...
Yeah i get what you're saying here, however 135 fuel after taking into consideration the income handicap actually puts it at more expensive than an Ostheer panther. (meaning other factions with the same income will earn approx 180 normal fuel in the time it will take for the OKW to accumulate 135. Meaning yeah its overpriced for its performance like nearly every other OKW vehicle)
Its fine starving a faction of fuel, if you keep the prices the same...
I could reverse your comment and say, "What is the point of starving the OKW for fuel if you're going to increase the costs of the tanks anyway from their Wehrmacht counterparts.
OKW p4 should be 125 fuel at the very most.
What is the point of starving the OKW for fuel if you're going decrease costs of tanks to compensate for it?
Yeah i get what you're saying here, however 135 fuel after taking into consideration the income handicap actually puts it at more expensive than an Ostheer panther. (meaning other factions with the same income will earn approx 180 normal fuel in the time it will take for the OKW to accumulate 135. Meaning yeah its overpriced for its performance like nearly every other OKW vehicle)
Its fine starving a faction of fuel, if you keep the prices the same...
I could reverse your comment and say, "What is the point of starving the OKW for fuel if you're going to increase the costs of the tanks anyway from their Wehrmacht counterparts.
OKW p4 should be 125 fuel at the very most.
15 Jul 2015, 18:15 PM
#31
Posts: 395
Go for Panther if you have AI covered, go for PIV is you have AT covered. More often than not you will need more AI as OKW if you went a doctrine without elite call in troops or don't want to waste time with Obers.
Good combo would be PIV with Fortifications.
This. The P4 fits well with the Pak 43 in theory.
I bought vCoH on January 3rd, 2007.
Still missing the days of vCoH 1.71. It had it's issues, like paks sniping 57s, and the strafe didn't work, but overall, it was probably the most balanced time in CoH history.
OF ruined that. CoH 2 is....balanced in a nasty way. Everyone has an equal stockpile of gamebreaking bullshit. USA is full of early game BS while the OKW doesn't get its BS until late game. It's just a question of how badly you exploit the faction's shit and how quickly, after a patch, you discover the gaping holes of bullshit Relic leaves. But either way, it's all BS. The only "BS" in vCoH that was gamechanging was the fast m8 vs a bunker.
Still missing the days of vCoH 1.71. It had it's issues, like paks sniping 57s, and the strafe didn't work, but overall, it was probably the most balanced time in CoH history.
OF ruined that. CoH 2 is....balanced in a nasty way. Everyone has an equal stockpile of gamebreaking bullshit. USA is full of early game BS while the OKW doesn't get its BS until late game. It's just a question of how badly you exploit the faction's shit and how quickly, after a patch, you discover the gaping holes of bullshit Relic leaves. But either way, it's all BS. The only "BS" in vCoH that was gamechanging was the fast m8 vs a bunker.
15 Jul 2015, 18:15 PM
#32
Posts: 4951 | Subs: 1
Just like how you can have 4 fussiliers for every 5 rifles. Mybad, thats an axis unit so its fine.
Model count =/= tanks. Also Fuss are more expensive than rifles. Nor can they be equipped with mobile AT or smoke.
15 Jul 2015, 18:47 PM
#33
Posts: 1116 | Subs: 1
Permanently BannedJust to be fair. Cruzz said the okw p4 has worse scatter and turret rotation speed than ost p4. Dunno if they changed that for this patch.
1337 h4X0R, dank memes
axis
15 Jul 2015, 18:58 PM
#34
Posts: 4928
Just to be fair. Cruzz said the okw p4 has worse scatter and turret rotation speed than ost p4. Dunno if they changed that for this patch.
If you read the patch notes or this thread you would know the answer to that.
all you filthy hotchkiss lovers need to l2p #TeamPanzerIII
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16 Jul 2015, 02:01 AM
#35
Posts: 508
The fact you can only have one PIV for every .87 IS2's or 1.4 T34/85's is pretty funny.
In actual game situations, isn't the OKW fuel penalty closer to 75-80% of other factions? Due to fuel caches from Wehr allies (common in 2v2 games to get at least one) and the fact that OKW fuels the normal 4/minute base fuel income.
For instance, in a game I recently played, me (Wehr) and my teammate (OKW) were a bit on the back foot for map control but had a fuel cache up. Fuel income broke down like this:
Wehr fuel: 19
OKW fuel: 22
In this case, the OKW player was getting 86% of the fuel from that map control. Earlier in the game, when we had a natural fuel point but no cache, it was like this:
Wehr fuel: 17
OKW fuel: 23
In this case, the OKW player got about 73% of the fuel the Wehr player did.
Looking at actual in-game numbers, the OKW fuel works out to probably no worse than 75% of the fuel normal factions get. Based on this, if we are going to adjust OKW unit prices to reflect the fuel penalty, we should multiply by 1.33 (.75 * 1.33 = ~1), rather than 1.5.
16 Jul 2015, 02:09 AM
#36
Posts: 4951 | Subs: 1
In actual game situations, isn't the OKW fuel penalty closer to 75-80% of other factions? Due to fuel caches from Wehr allies (common in 2v2 games to get at least one) and the fact that OKW fuels the normal 4/minute base fuel income.
For instance, in a game I recently played, me (Wehr) and my teammate (OKW) were a bit on the back foot for map control but had a fuel cache up. Fuel income broke down like this:
Wehr fuel: 19
OKW fuel: 22
In this case, the OKW player was getting 86% of the fuel from that map control. Earlier in the game, when we had a natural fuel point but no cache, it was like this:
Wehr fuel: 17
OKW fuel: 23
In this case, the OKW player got about 73% of the fuel the Wehr player did.
Looking at actual in-game numbers, the OKW fuel works out to probably no worse than 75% of the fuel normal factions get. Based on this, if we are going to adjust OKW unit prices to reflect the fuel penalty, we should multiply by 1.33 (.75 * 1.33 = ~1), rather than 1.5.
OKW gets 66% fuel income on literally everything except 2 things; fuel drops from Luftwaffe supply and base income. Meaning that the percentage can jump around from 66%~ without a fuel point to up to 71%~ with a fuel point. However the base income can be discounted as it's just a starting point and all other factions will still have a lead on all other fuel incomes.
Cache income is decreased as well, which is why it's so funny that people complain about it because an OKW player will benefit at a reduced rate so if everyone has an equal amount of caches OKW will still be at a fuel income disadvantage.
16 Jul 2015, 03:59 AM
#37
Posts: 508
OKW gets 66% fuel income on literally everything except 2 things; fuel drops from Luftwaffe supply and base income. Meaning that the percentage can jump around from 66%~ without a fuel point to up to 71%~ with a fuel point. However the base income can be discounted as it's just a starting point and all other factions will still have a lead on all other fuel incomes.
Cache income is decreased as well, which is why it's so funny that people complain about it because an OKW player will benefit at a reduced rate so if everyone has an equal amount of caches OKW will still be at a fuel income disadvantage.
You're missing the main point which is that with equal map control OKW will have around 75% of their opponent's fuel income, not 66%. The base income cannot be discounted as it a significant portion of the fuel each faction receives.
If you think I'm wrong, show me a screen shot of a replay where an OKW player is getting 66% of the fuel their Wehrmacht ally is getting. You won't be able to because that situation basically never occurs in the actual game.
16 Jul 2015, 04:14 AM
#38
Posts: 27
It's got 100 times better at AI than the Panther and when vetted it evaporates infantry, plus it can pull its weight in a tank battle. If you've already got a decent amount of AT from rackets, volks, or Pumas it's worth it to pickup a PzIV.
16 Jul 2015, 04:35 AM
#39
Posts: 4951 | Subs: 1
You're missing the main point which is that with equal map control OKW will have around 75% of their opponent's fuel income, not 66%. The base income cannot be discounted as it a significant portion of the fuel each faction receives.
If you think I'm wrong, show me a screen shot of a replay where an OKW player is getting 66% of the fuel their Wehrmacht ally is getting. You won't be able to because that situation basically never occurs in the actual game.
The game doesn't do fractions so here is how income works. You get 66% of a fuel point which is isn't a round number meaning the game just shows you getting (rounded) up more fuel than you should actually be getting. If you turn conversion on yes you can negate part of the income disability at the cost of decreasing your other income (it isn't very efficient).
16 Jul 2015, 04:58 AM
#40
4 Posts: 1194 | Subs: 1
I am seeing a lot of people wanting a fu cost decrease, citing okw resource penalties.
But that's always been the way okw has worked. They can get initial armor out fast enough, but have a hard time replacing it. And it's not like you don't get bonuses for that minus, you have access to vet 5 so that your infantry and vehicles scale much better into the lategame than your enemies' units.
You pay 135 fu for the best stock medium in the game (230 frontal armor). If you pay less, then the unit itself has to be weaker.
If okw fu units get a cost decrease, then there would be no point in having a fuel penalty. Panthers cost the same for both okw and ostheer, as does the puma. This proves that equal fu cost for equal performance is how it works.
But that's always been the way okw has worked. They can get initial armor out fast enough, but have a hard time replacing it. And it's not like you don't get bonuses for that minus, you have access to vet 5 so that your infantry and vehicles scale much better into the lategame than your enemies' units.
You pay 135 fu for the best stock medium in the game (230 frontal armor). If you pay less, then the unit itself has to be weaker.
If okw fu units get a cost decrease, then there would be no point in having a fuel penalty. Panthers cost the same for both okw and ostheer, as does the puma. This proves that equal fu cost for equal performance is how it works.
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