ISU-152

My thought after just finished 1v1 game. If T34/85 can kill easily 3/4 squad, why ISU cannot?
Remember that there are 2 T34/85 and if 1 can kill 3/4 squad then what can do 2 of them?

My thought after just finished 1v1 game. If T34/85 can kill easily 3/4 squad, why ISU cannot?
Remember that there are 2 T34/85 and if 1 can kill 3/4 squad then what can do 2 of them?

But the T34s are not at 100 range safe from PaK's40, shrecks, fausts, mines etc.

My thought after just finished 1v1 game. If T34/85 can kill easily 3/4 squad, why ISU cannot?
Remember that there are 2 T34/85 and if 1 can kill 3/4 squad then what can do 2 of them?

Pretty much all tanks have insane AI this patch. The problem is that the ISU does it at 100 range right now. Either the AI gets worse or its range must be reduced.

I think both Elefant and ISU should lose range. Countering them with "stock" vehicles like P4 or T34 would become more viable.

But ISU need that range (just lower accuracy) cause of schrecks. Just imagine situation.
There is Elephant with 2 PGrens squads. I have 4 T34/85. I want to flank Elephant. Focus all power on it. I may kill it but that's not certain. Meanwhile PGrens will blow up my T34/85s.
Simple question, how to get close to Elephant if it's cover by PGrens with Schrecks.
________________________
I have ISU and 2 Guards squads. You want to flank it with Panthers.
All I can do is make you Panthers blind (of course if I have enough ammo). Meanwhile ISU will rotate shoot once,
blindness is gone, and you can flank it and finish. You even don't bother with Guards cause their damage is a joke.

I know there can be ZiSs, TM35 etc. but these are the simplest situations.
What I mean is Soviets need something that can wipe germans inf from distance. Otherwise we even cant get close (unless there is noob player which left elephant alone and turns back to my T34/85, just like today )

if they change the AI or range I agree the rotation speed needs adjusting to prevent shrek rapage

Neither ISU nor Elefant should have a range decrease. I like the unique feeling you get with them and their range. Further less range would make both borderline useless as they can´t turn for shit.

In case of the Elefant I think the damage should be nerfed so it doesn´t kill T-34/ Su-85 with two but three shots.

In case of the ISU-152 a reload and/or scatter increase should do the trick.

I don't even understand the nature of this non-sense complains about 100 range.
At such distance ISU-152 kills a pak in like good looooong three shots. The accuracy and damage drop very much at max range. You know it, right?

At range 50-70 ISU is a total beast. One shots infantry and team weapons like a pro. I agree it is a little bit to much, but hey... do you still have problem flanking it at medium range? You still get Paks wiped out at range 100? Maybe because you left it without attention?

Hmm yeah, a scatter descrease at long ranges might work ok. Still hit tanks reliably, but inf on the move might only lose 1 man, or ocasionally miss altogether. Afterall, artillery type guns are not pin point accurate.

But also an accuracy decrease for the Elefant.

Decrease damage for elefant? wut? he is a dedicated, expensive and slow and HEAVY TANK destroyer, only good at taking out tanks(specially su85/is2/ISU).

You nerf its damage to tanks? is going to become crap, I already see it.

Just make heavy vehicles need tech to call-in(for example T3-T4) and I think it will be fine.

Decrease damage for ISU? wut? he is a generalis, expensive and slow and HEAVY ASSAULT gun, only good at taking out tanks and infantry.

You nerf its damage to tanks/infantry? is going to become crap, I already see it.

Just make heavy vehicles need tech to call-in(for example T3-T4) and I think it will be fine.

See what I did there? And the point is exactly just as valid.

If you're going to touch one, other needs same treatment.

Either both of them are OP or none is.
One obliterates tanks and is indestructible, other is more squishy but deals well with everything.

None of them should be in game in the first place, both are batshit op.

This is a good point. Both the Elefant and ISU have poor accuracy at range 100-80 ish. I have seen the ISU often just shooting the ground constantly at these ranges.

I think range 60-70 is optimal for these weapons. It's close enough that it can outrange and score hits as well as roll backward to secure its flanks.

At range 50-70 ISU is a total beast. One shots infantry and team weapons like a pro. /quote]

Reducing the ranges on both the elefant and the ISU-152 would allow for less squad wipes as long as you're out of range.

I don't buy into the notion that a doctrinal counter to a doctrinal unit is inherently unfair. With that being said, a real flank of the tank will render it useless fairly quickly, (unlike the 1 million t34/76 shots required to take down an elephant.) I also don't accept the contention that the ISU-152 is unflankable when supported, so far as I can tell, setting up a good combined arms army that is lethal as well as able to defend itself is more or less the point of the game.

http://www.coh2.org/replay/16884/4v4-upset-epic-game/page/1#post_id150006

Replay of ISU-152 in action vs the #1 ranked, undefeated German 4v4 team.

Crying about a squad wipes like whiny bitches. You got a squad wiped 40 minutes into the game? Good. Deal with it. At one point in that match the germans 1 shot wipes a soviet players entire army (tanks and all) with recon-->3x bomb strike. Yet you're butt hurt over losing 1 squad because you don't know how to use line of sight. Watch a replay of how good players roll with the punches, change up their strategy and adjust their tactics to overcome difficult situations.

The ISU152 was the saving grace in that game, but only through excellent teamwork, coordination and micro were they kept alive from the Elephant, medium tank rushes and endless dive bomb spamming that was crushing everything else on the map.

Also, check out the 4v4 that Brayalex posted where his german team takes out the #1 undefeated soviet team. The germans employed a phenomenal strategy and the soviets, lacking an ISU152, had no way to contend with LOS blocked pak43 and Stug with stun-shot denying the center of the map.

I sincerely hope Relic doesn't go to far in pandering to the lowest common denominator. If they listened to the most vocal 'contributors' this game would be balanced for the least creative, lowest skilled players who are far more interested in posting on forums than actually playing the game.

Would anyone have a problem if they just changed it back to how it was pre-patch? I have no idea why Relic even changed it in the first place, thought it was perfectly fine (if a TAD expensive)

Would anyone have a problem if they just changed it back to how it was pre-patch? I have no idea why Relic even changed it in the first place, thought it was perfectly fine (if a TAD expensive)

Because Soviet fanboys were on the forums crying about lack of AT. The IS2 is now a reskinned Tiger etc. The t34 needed some love thats for sure, but the isu was fine the way it was. IS2 need better pen, but thats it.

Because Soviet fanboys were on the forums crying about lack of AT. The IS2 is now a reskinned Tiger etc. The t34 needed some love thats for sure, but the isu was fine the way it was. IS2 need better pen, but thats it.

ISU was fine? I still have nightmares when ISU shoots Panther with "poof"...

ISU was fine? I still have nightmares when ISU shoots Panther with "poof"...

ISU is an assault gun that should be shooting HE. It shouldn't have pen and amazing scatter in the same shot. Also you ground attack rear of panther. boom not poof. if you didn't know about attack ground then no wonder you had problems with isu.

In 2v2, t1+t2 ISU-152 / IS-2 combo is nearly impossible to beat. The nerf to the Panzerwerfer and Panzergrens makes it a pain to take out those weapon teams...

ISU is an assault gun that should be shooting HE. It shouldn't have pen and amazing scatter in the same shot. Also you ground attack rear of panther. boom not poof. if you didn't know about attack ground then no wonder you had problems with isu.

I know CoH is not about realizm but..
http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-6HVPrFhwUM4/Uv4xaGs8_wI/AAAAAAAACfU/WaoXWR4ZJ6Q/s1600/isu-cats-1.jpg -> #38
This shows direct hit, from ISU with HE-fragmentation shell, on Panther
_____________
The solution could be some ability that switch between HE and AP shell.