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russian armor

Panzergrens

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22 Jan 2014, 19:52 PM
#81
avatar of Gecko2k3

Posts: 91

Why don`t we make ostruupen = cons grens = penal and make PGrens doctrinal 5 man squad. And then everyone can stop whining and finding reason to nerf/buff specific infantry on both sides?


I think that increasing the squad members of Grens will solve a lot of problems.
22 Jan 2014, 20:06 PM
#82
avatar of coh2player

Posts: 1571

Yea, I have thought of that, too.

A good call-in for a future German commander would be an infantry focused commander that costs manpower instead of munitions and fuel.

So you have maybe a call-in german version of the Guards or conscripts: A 5-6 man grenadier squad.
22 Jan 2014, 21:09 PM
#83
avatar of VonMecha

Posts: 419

22 Jan 2014, 21:09 PM
#84
avatar of VonMecha

Posts: 419

Why don`t we make ostruupen = cons grens = penal and make PGrens doctrinal 5 man squad. And then everyone can stop whining and finding reason to nerf/buff specific infantry on both sides?
Love those ideas
25 Jan 2014, 00:27 AM
#85
avatar of spajn
Donator 11

Posts: 927

pzgrens and shocks are fine, its rifleinfantry thats worthless and need a huge damage buff.. rifles in coh2 is like bbguns
25 Jan 2014, 00:54 AM
#86
avatar of Mr. Someguy

Posts: 4928

jump backJump back to quoted post25 Jan 2014, 00:27 AMspajn
pzgrens and shocks are fine, its rifleinfantry thats worthless and need a huge damage buff.. rifles in coh2 is like bbguns


Actually the real reason is infantry in CoH2 have a lot more health. Riflemen had 55, Volks had 65, Grens had 80, etc. But in CoH2, everything except Partisans (48), Osttruppen (48), and Snipers (40) have 80 health. The armour modifiers ontop of them give them even more tankiness (Grenadiers have 1.5, Shock Troops have 2.25, etc).
25 Jan 2014, 18:00 PM
#87
avatar of Bravus

Posts: 503

Permanently Banned
No need 6 guys, need a bust to the sgt44, make it more real...
25 Jan 2014, 18:10 PM
#88
avatar of wooof

Posts: 950 | Subs: 1



Actually the real reason is infantry in CoH2 have a lot more health. Riflemen had 55, Volks had 65, Grens had 80, etc. But in CoH2, everything except Partisans (48), Osttruppen (48), and Snipers (40) have 80 health. The armour modifiers ontop of them give them even more tankiness (Grenadiers have 1.5, Shock Troops have 2.25, etc).


this is true, but nerfing infantry hp would then indirectly buff all weapons against infantry. personally, i dont think tanks, flamers, mortars, mines, grenades, etc need a buff. thats why buffing rifle damage would be the better solution (burst weapons are already strong enough).
25 Jan 2014, 18:45 PM
#89
avatar of coh2player

Posts: 1571

I find that the tanks and the infantry all seem more durable so firefights are longer. This makes the game more noob friendly as mistakes are not punished so quickly.

For instance, we have heavy tanks with 900+ HP and they can take numerous hits. Same with infantry.
25 Jan 2014, 22:34 PM
#90
avatar of miragefla
Developer Relic Badge

Posts: 1304 | Subs: 13

I feel tanks and armour are less durable. While ATGs may not be as potent, armour combat ends much more quickly as a lot of dedicated AT weapons/guns tend to do 160 damage and most medium vehicles have 640 health. I'm pretty sure back in vCoH, Shermans and Panzer IVs did far less. I think about 80 damage. Also you have range increases for the more dedicated anti-armour vehicles allowing them to hit further than their vCoH counterparts.

Infantry are more durable to small-arms, but not to the extent of Vet 3 Grenadiers from vCoH who could retreat past a groups of infantry, not caring what's shooting at them unless they were Vet 3 rifles.
26 Jan 2014, 00:21 AM
#91
avatar of Mr. Someguy

Posts: 4928

jump backJump back to quoted post25 Jan 2014, 18:10 PMwooof
this is true, but nerfing infantry hp would then indirectly buff all weapons against infantry. personally, i dont think tanks, flamers, mortars, mines, grenades, etc need a buff. thats why buffing rifle damage would be the better solution (burst weapons are already strong enough).


True, a rifle doing 10 damage to 50HP is the same as doing 200 damage to 1000HP, in the end they're all just arbitrary numbers.

Besides that, I feel the problem isn't so much with the damage vs health (although it doesn't help) as it is with the armour system. vCoH had a great armour system, you could balance anything vs anything. The new system unfortunately, just piles RNG onto the unit, in the form of % chance to deflect all damage. This is most noticeable on Ost Snipers, who can either CQB a Conscript Squad or be killed in the first volley at max range by Engineers, depending on how the RNG rolls it.
8 Feb 2014, 16:57 PM
#92
avatar of wongtp

Posts: 647

well, i have a replay that will end all nay sayers.

fuck what all of you are saying, the combination of troop training and panzergrens makes coh2 a balance disaster.

http://www.coh2.org/replays/13871/pgrens-and-troop-training.-absolute-nightmare.

this game is disgusting.
8 Feb 2014, 17:32 PM
#93
avatar of b-VDV

Posts: 17

jump backJump back to quoted post8 Feb 2014, 16:57 PMwongtp
well, i have a replay that will end all nay sayers.

fuck what all of you are saying, the combination of troop training and panzergrens makes coh2 a balance disaster.

http://www.coh2.org/replays/13871/pgrens-and-troop-training.-absolute-nightmare.

this game is disgusting.


All my 2V2 games as Soviets are like that. It's really frustrating...
I wait for "pro german" response, they will probably say that Glum used the "proper counter" blablabla to yours both army with 1 unit XD.
That mega blob of doom is unstoppable, the only way to deal with it is to plant a demo charge and prey they go through.
The most funny thing is that the guy on the left side does nothing!! No need to mention that Glum rushed for a vet 2 Panther.
Total unit : 4 Panzegren vet 3, 1 Pioneer, 1 Panther vet 2! WIN
8 Feb 2014, 19:05 PM
#94
avatar of Mad_Hatter

Posts: 134

jump backJump back to quoted post8 Feb 2014, 17:32 PMb-VDV


All my 2V2 games as Soviets are like that. It's really frustrating...
I wait for "pro german" response, they will probably say that Glum used the "proper counter" blablabla to yours both army with 1 unit XD.
That mega blob of doom is unstoppable, the only way to deal with it is to plant a demo charge and prey they go through.
The most funny thing is that the guy on the left side does nothing!! No need to mention that Glum rushed for a vet 2 Panther.
Total unit : 4 Panzegren vet 3, 1 Pioneer, 1 Panther vet 2! WIN


I think the response may be the usual: "Shocks are clearly op ... Move them to 7cps. Germans are fine, actually they are underpowered didn't you know? Its a miracle they win any game."

On a more serious note elite inf troop training is the prohlem as it always is. Unlock all then crazy vet bonuses from base? Sure why not ... seems fair!
8 Feb 2014, 19:22 PM
#95
avatar of Kronosaur0s

Posts: 1701

What? Both of you didnt have maxims or snipers when the panzergrenadiers brought chaos, you only had connscripts, its like a paradise for PzGrens lol.
8 Feb 2014, 19:54 PM
#96
avatar of Katitof

Posts: 17891 | Subs: 8

What? Both of you didnt have maxims or snipers when the panzergrenadiers brought chaos, you only had connscripts, its like a paradise for PzGrens lol.

Not sure if you're aware, but 3 PGs actually walk over maxim frontally as a blob, no micro needed.
And sniper 15 second ROF also isn't a formidable stopping power to a blob, especially when squad members don't even hit the ground as they go in german sniper case.
8 Feb 2014, 20:21 PM
#97
avatar of Kronosaur0s

Posts: 1701

Do the Siberian Style(3 snipers) and you will wipe out every german squad!
8 Feb 2014, 20:25 PM
#98
avatar of Katitof

Posts: 17891 | Subs: 8

I prefer strats that can't be countered with lucky mortar shot :P
8 Feb 2014, 22:06 PM
#99
avatar of wooof

Posts: 950 | Subs: 1


Not sure if you're aware, but 3 PGs actually walk over maxim frontally as a blob, no micro needed.


i think we all know what you guys would say if a german complained that 1 mg42 couldnt stop 3 cons...

hilarious replay by the way. blobs everywhere on both sides. i especially liked it when the kv8 tries to attack a pak and 2 p4s.
8 Feb 2014, 22:10 PM
#100
avatar of Lichtbringer

Posts: 476

Just use a Maxim with attackmove against the PGrens. If he uses the Pgrens to flank, hold you maxim in the back, with attackmove. GG.
If he comes with 3 Pgrens, build 2-3 maxims.
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