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For the Love Of God M1 Pack Howitzer

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6 Jul 2019, 09:34 AM
#101
avatar of thekingsown10

Posts: 232


Have you ever used panzerwerfer?
Pack howi is supposed to fill that role of pwerfer you know.



I'm at a loss for words.. the ignorance.

Let's for one moment pretend your hallucination is correct why does a pak howitzer auto fire then? a panzerwerfer needs to be in relatively close range to squad wipe and is timed manual fire only.
6 Jul 2019, 09:41 AM
#102
avatar of Katitof

Posts: 17914 | Subs: 8




I'm at a loss for words.. the ignorance.

Let's for one moment pretend your hallucination is correct why does a pak howitzer auto fire then? a panzerwerfer needs to be in relatively close range to squad wipe and is timed manual fire only.

Because its a middle ground between mortars and howitzers.
Mortars autofire.
It wouldn't be like that if I was to make changes here, but its like this.
And most expensive one that arrives latest of them all WILL be most powerful one.
6 Jul 2019, 19:48 PM
#103
avatar of LoopDloop

Posts: 3053




I'm at a loss for words.. the ignorance.

Let's for one moment pretend your hallucination is correct why does a pak howitzer auto fire then? a panzerwerfer needs to be in relatively close range to squad wipe and is timed manual fire only.

I'd be fine with trading pack howie for pwerfer lol.
7 Jul 2019, 02:16 AM
#104
avatar of pvtgooner

Posts: 359

Just stop blobbing your grens up, jesus. OST has all these new toys and a far higher win rate than USF but still there's complaint after complaint about literally every single USF indirect fire unit other than the PoS Priest. Just move your units out of the way, spread them out. Pack howi range is pathetic, and you have all these flares and sight abilities and infiltration units you can use to hard counter it. If it's late game, a single P4 shell will decrew a pack howitzer. Early game, he shouldn't have MGs unless he sunk fuel into the AAHT, so just overrun it with infantry. Hell, the OST mortar can probably even murder it.


+1
7 Jul 2019, 04:48 AM
#105
avatar of mrgame2

Posts: 1794

While pak and scott aim to be a sniper of sort, but imo they are performing much better pound for pound.

Sniper needs much micro, die easier and you counter snipe. It is heavy investment, high risk high reward.

You cannot say that for pak and scott. Which i believe the lack of hard counter is the problem, especially for Wehr. Both Usf arty are hands-off auto fire with great accuracy and damages, against 4 man wehr and their needs to stay still.

Im thinking Pak profile can be like land mattress, can be destroyed by vehicle. Remember land mattress was QoL bad even though it cannot retreat and have reload times?

Scott definitely needs resources to go up. Too cheap for its performance. Pwafer dies easily to a rushing T34. Scott is too 'cheap' too durable to gain veterancy.

Im not a Usf player, but when i play 2v2 using usf, more of my units are vetted than wehr, enjoying those sweet usf vet bonus.
7 Jul 2019, 05:00 AM
#106
avatar of CODGUY

Posts: 888

Yes lets nerf one of the most useless USF units lol. Those things suck so bad I've seen them lose in duels to LEIGs. I honestly wouldn't care if they did because like Insaid they're a waste of pop and MP.
7 Jul 2019, 05:03 AM
#107
avatar of CODGUY

Posts: 888

While pak and scott aim to be a sniper of sort, but imo they are performing much better pound for pound.

Sniper needs much micro, die easier and you counter snipe. It is heavy investment, high risk high reward.

You cannot say that for pak and scott. Which i believe the lack of hard counter is the problem, especially for Wehr. Both Usf arty are hands-off auto fire with great accuracy and damages, against 4 man wehr and their needs to stay still.

Im thinking Pak profile can be like land mattress, can be destroyed by vehicle. Remember land mattress was QoL bad even though it cannot retreat and have reload times?

Scott definitely needs resources to go up. Too cheap for its performance. Pwafer dies easily to a rushing T34. Scott is too 'cheap' too durable to gain veterancy.

Im not a Usf player, but when i play 2v2 using usf, more of my units are vetted than wehr, enjoying those sweet usf vet bonus.


I think Panzer IVs, Ostwinds, Luchs, and Pumas hard counter M8 Scotts and lame Pack Howitzers pretty well.
7 Jul 2019, 05:10 AM
#108
avatar of mrgame2

Posts: 1794

Imo Puma is the likeliest counter because of 60 range. Even then it needs 4 shot, the same number as Jackson vs P4...but P4 target size is much easier.

Scott is just so fast and small , P4 is going to miss if you dive it, and expose itself to TD, AT.

Ostwind and Luch do less damage. If Usf want to switch scott for pwafer, then Ost and Luch will have a good day.

Scott is simply too cheap for its performance.
7 Jul 2019, 05:17 AM
#109
avatar of FelixTHM

Posts: 503 | Subs: 1

jump backJump back to quoted post7 Jul 2019, 05:03 AMCODGUY


I think Panzer IVs, Ostwinds, Luchs, and Pumas hard counter M8 Scotts and lame Pack Howitzers pretty well.



Luchs hard counter Scotts eh. You do realise the Scotts uses the same chassis as, and therefore has the exact same defensive stats as the Stuart? After a full reload cycle and with both vehicles on the move, the Scotts loses about 1/4 of its health.....What a hard counter.

Ostwinds and P4s don't have the acceleration and speed to catch the Scotts, unless you are really bad with your light vehicle micro. Which of course we know you are, since you're constantly reporting that Axis units just existing makes your light vehicles unusable and you're losing them all the time in hilarious l2p fashion.

Puma, while being able to counter Scotts, is literally built only for the purpose of countering Light Vehicles -> which the Scotts is.
7 Jul 2019, 05:18 AM
#110
avatar of FelixTHM

Posts: 503 | Subs: 1

Imo Puma is the likeliest counter because of 60 range. Even then it needs 4 shot, the same number as Jackson vs P4...but P4 target size is much easier.

Scott is just so fast and small , P4 is going to miss if you dive it, and expose itself to TD, AT.

Ostwind and Luch do less damage. If Usf want to switch scott for pwafer, then Ost and Luch will have a good day.

Scott is simply too cheap for its performance.



Puma doesn't have 60 range.
7 Jul 2019, 05:32 AM
#111
avatar of mrgame2

Posts: 1794

Ok i misrecall Puma range, so that is worse than that, proving Scott overperfomance!

I dont see how Luch hard counter scott when it is an AI tank?
It pen is so bad worse than Ostwind. It is like 25 vs 70/50 armor, so much roll of chance.
And you need to get really close up scott, dive really deep, exposed itself even more than p4. A simple snare, and you throw away your Luch, while Scott just drive back for auto-repairs..

I may not be top player, but i played tons, watched many many top casts, and Scott simply overperforming is a fact.

The thing with Scott and Pak, and current 60 range TD meta, allies can sit further back and take snipe shots, higher rewards lower risk, which im campaigning against, the exact opposite of QoL.
7 Jul 2019, 10:44 AM
#112
avatar of Lago

Posts: 3260

That's a thought. Couldn't you just make the Scotts slower?

That way they can still provide long range anti-infantry bleed (what they're for) but if they can't outrun tanks they need to be defended.

Being able to outrun the M3 made a world of difference to the Kubel.
7 Jul 2019, 13:47 PM
#113
avatar of mrgame2

Posts: 1794

I probably prefer to up its resources usage. Slower scotts with small target size is still QoL since they are never front line units.

Usf is resources abundance the later the game goes on. It forces the usf player to chose between another more expensive scotts or not.
7 Jul 2019, 16:02 PM
#114
avatar of general_gawain

Posts: 919

In teamgames OKW is the key to counter Pack Howitzer and Scott. Stuka zu Fuss hardcounters the Howi to a point that you don't want to build them anymore. Breakthrough doctrine with Jagdtiger harcounters Scotts in lategame because of Jagdtiger having same range as Scott barrage (greater range than autoattack) and worldpiercing rounds.
7 Jul 2019, 17:34 PM
#115
avatar of SkysTheLimit

Posts: 3423 | Subs: 1

a panzerwerfer needs to be in relatively close range to squad wipe and is timed manual fire only.


And the US has nothing like the werfer stock, so they get things like the pak howy instead. They don't have abrumbarr so they get the Scott.

Unless of course you think the calliope should be stock instead? We can have that conversation, your call
7 Jul 2019, 17:49 PM
#116
avatar of Neneko007

Posts: 13

In all honesty I would give both Scott and pack howitzer up for a panzerwarfer in a heartbeat. Both units are good at harvesting the enemy, but panzer will melt blobs.
7 Jul 2019, 18:11 PM
#117
avatar of Nickbn

Posts: 88 | Subs: 1

For the love of god please fix the M1 pack howitzer "overperforming" is an understatement the unit as absolutely broken.

Its accuracy is way too high along with a ridiculous AOE and damage profile. 2 M1 paks will squad wipe everything with zero input from the player building it.


I can't even.

more than 116 replies and counting. At least you got that going for you.Bravo

Oh btw add your playercard and hours played for the full picture please.
7 Jul 2019, 18:31 PM
#118
avatar of Vipper

Posts: 13496 | Subs: 1



And the US has nothing like the werfer stock, so they get things like the pak howy instead. They don't have abrumbarr so they get the Scott.

Unless of course you think the calliope should be stock instead? We can have that conversation, your call

with the same logic:
"The Ostheer have nothing like the Major barrage stock so they have Wefer."

This is simply the "grass is greener on the side of fence mentality". The pack howitzer has little common tech wise, cost wise, timing wise or damage deliver wise with the wefer.

There is little comparison between the Brumbar and Scott also.

In addition Ostheer as faction have little to do with USF when it comes to design faction. Comparison between the Wefer and and Pack howitzer are simply misleading.

If the pack howizter role is that of wefer, it should be move to T3and the Scott should become doctrinal,so pls lets drop this silly argument.

Bottom line is that USF currently can turtle up nearly as good as Ostheer using stock units and the Pack howitzer gives them the edge. Unit is simply too powerful for its time frame.
7 Jul 2019, 18:43 PM
#120
avatar of SupremeStefan

Posts: 1220

jump backJump back to quoted post7 Jul 2019, 18:31 PMVipper

USF currently can turtle up nearly as good as Ostheer
In same time OKW can turtle like brits or be agresive like USF #balanced
Anyway evan wermarht now can be more agresive with panzergranadiers or assgrens


Your argument is from 2013 i guess
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