Allied vs axis staying power
9 Jun 2019, 08:23 AM
#1
Posts: 789
I think the reason why Panthers seem worse than SU85/Firefly/Jackson is NOT that they are worse in combat, but that Panthers have huge repair times compared to allied tank destroyers.
Should allied tank destroyers get repair time penalties?
Most of my ideas are probably bad, - but I try and share lots of them
and maybe some of them will be good an improve the game
One can hope
and maybe some of them will be good an improve the game
One can hope
9 Jun 2019, 08:23 AM
#2
Posts: 789
Also,
.
( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°)
.
( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°)
Most of my ideas are probably bad, - but I try and share lots of them
and maybe some of them will be good an improve the game
One can hope
and maybe some of them will be good an improve the game
One can hope
9 Jun 2019, 09:13 AM
#3
Posts: 955
The only reason Panther takes longer is due to larger health
"Nice. Very impressive. Now let´s see Paul Allen´s playercard."
9 Jun 2019, 10:03 AM
#4
Posts: 17896 | Subs: 8
Units with 50% more health take 50% more time to repair.
More shocking news at 11.
(we can agree to give them the same repair time by cutting panthers HP from 960 to 640, are you up for that?)
More shocking news at 11.
(we can agree to give them the same repair time by cutting panthers HP from 960 to 640, are you up for that?)
Maybe it's 'cause the Axis players aren't a bunch of forum crybabies, and they keep their cool and fight the uphill battle, unlike some of their "allied" counterparts.
9 Jun 2019, 10:13 AM
#5
Posts: 13477 | Subs: 1
HP is not the only factor as repair speed are different across factions.
To make thing even worse Pioneer have a hard time vetting since they are to squishy to fight allied infantry at close range.
To make thing even worse Pioneer have a hard time vetting since they are to squishy to fight allied infantry at close range.
9 Jun 2019, 10:34 AM
#6
Posts: 45
Permanently BannedHP is not the only factor as repair speed are different across factions.
To make thing even worse Pioneer have a hard time vetting since they are to squishy to fight allied infantry at close range.
CE would love to have a chat with you
9 Jun 2019, 10:45 AM
#7
Posts: 1289
CE,s have the old cons mosins i believe. 16 damage but terrible acc. Making them rng machines.
Essentaily at close range they are at their best. But being 4 men they have low dps and no staying power unless merge is close by.
Essentaily at close range they are at their best. But being 4 men they have low dps and no staying power unless merge is close by.
9 Jun 2019, 10:45 AM
#8
Posts: 2989 | Subs: 3
Axis have more health on their tanks and more expensive pioneers usually but that's why OKW Sturmpioneers got access to a repair speed buff upgrade. I think vet 2 Sturmpios with the upgrade have almost same repair speed like vet 2 heavy royal engineers.... the highest in coh2.
They also got access to repair trucks, repair bunkers and - next patch- access to faster repairs for Ostheer pioneers
They also got access to repair trucks, repair bunkers and - next patch- access to faster repairs for Ostheer pioneers
9 Jun 2019, 11:04 AM
#9
Posts: 13477 | Subs: 1
CE would love to have a chat with you
If you want to vet you CE give them a flamer and put them on m3 or keep them in the front-line and merge conscripts with them.
Try to attack with pioneer allied infantry once the have weapon upgrade and see how fast they will drop.
9 Jun 2019, 11:06 AM
#10
Posts: 3166 | Subs: 6
I think the only problem is how terribly slow stock Pioneers repair.
Soviets have a ton of doctrinal repair upgrades, USF have vehicle crews and the Brits have doctrinal repair and the heavy Sappers, on top of being able to vet their Sappers faster by giving them weapon rack upgrades and getting a fifth model with Bolster. OKW have fast repairs on Sturmpioneers (which aren't too hard to get to vet 2 either) and the Mechanized repairs upgrade.
I think it wouldn't hurt if Pioneers minesweeper upgrade gave +0.2 or 0.3 repair speed. I guess Soviet Combat Engineers could get the same, but it's a less pressing issue for them (because of all the doctrinal repairs and low HP tanks).
Soviets have a ton of doctrinal repair upgrades, USF have vehicle crews and the Brits have doctrinal repair and the heavy Sappers, on top of being able to vet their Sappers faster by giving them weapon rack upgrades and getting a fifth model with Bolster. OKW have fast repairs on Sturmpioneers (which aren't too hard to get to vet 2 either) and the Mechanized repairs upgrade.
I think it wouldn't hurt if Pioneers minesweeper upgrade gave +0.2 or 0.3 repair speed. I guess Soviet Combat Engineers could get the same, but it's a less pressing issue for them (because of all the doctrinal repairs and low HP tanks).
9 Jun 2019, 11:08 AM
#11
Posts: 3144 | Subs: 2
CE would love to have a chat with you
Let's not conveniently mention the other 3 or so repair methods they get in most of their commanders as well while the Ost only has 2 or so commanders with an alternative repair ability.
9 Jun 2019, 11:15 AM
#12
Posts: 1289
Let's not conveniently mention the other 3 or so repair methods they get in most of their commanders as well while the Ost only has 2 or so commanders with an alternative repair ability.
Lets not conviently forget how much smoke ost has in doctrines to escape damage. And blitz to get out of range quicker. Lets not forget the higher hp and armour valurs ost has over most allied armour.
9 Jun 2019, 11:37 AM
#13
Posts: 3260
I think the only problem is how terribly slow stock Pioneers repair.
Soviets have a ton of doctrinal repair upgrades, USF have vehicle crews and the Brits have doctrinal repair and the heavy Sappers, on top of being able to vet their Sappers faster by giving them weapon rack upgrades and getting a fifth model with Bolster. OKW have fast repairs on Sturmpioneers (which aren't too hard to get to vet 2 either) and the Mechanized repairs upgrade.
I think it wouldn't hurt if Pioneers minesweeper upgrade gave +0.2 or 0.3 repair speed. I guess Soviet Combat Engineers could get the same, but it's a less pressing issue for them (because of all the doctrinal repairs and low HP tanks).
Could you kill two birds with one stone here?
251 Support Upgrade
- 30 munitions
- +80 HP (320 to 400)
- Adds a Repair Aura lockdown like the USF M3 used to have
- Locks out flamer
That'd help with both infantry and vehicular presence, and would give you a reason to get a 251 for non-flamer duties.
9 Jun 2019, 13:02 PM
#14
Posts: 45
Permanently Banned
If you want to vet you CE give them a flamer and put them on m3 or keep them in the front-line and merge conscripts with them.
Try to attack with pioneer allied infantry once the have weapon upgrade and see how fast they will drop.
Assuming i go t1 right..
You can vet pios early because they can even duel conscripts at close range or u can upgrade to flamer the same way.. cons also have bigger target size than CE or Pios..while u can merge and keep them in frontline grens with mg-42 will drop them both like flies when they try to close in if you want to go for the weapon argument
9 Jun 2019, 13:05 PM
#15
Posts: 45
Permanently Banned
Let's not conveniently mention the other 3 or so repair methods they get in most of their commanders as well while the Ost only has 2 or so commanders with an alternative repair ability.
I can only name 2 and the other one sucks and locked to bad commander.. (Repair stations) then you have crew repairs..which if i remember right OKW has access to aswell or is it just criticals? on top of them getting a mech truck with repairs and sturms..not to forget all the other nice stuff to escape harms way as someone mentioned
9 Jun 2019, 13:41 PM
#16
Posts: 13477 | Subs: 1
Assuming i go t1 right..
You can vet pios early because they can even duel conscripts at close range or u can upgrade to flamer the same way.. cons also have bigger target size than CE or Pios..while u can merge and keep them in frontline grens with mg-42 will drop them both like flies when they try to close in if you want to go for the weapon argument
Not really C.E. flamer and merge require no building at all.
By the time one gets his pioneers close to conscripts (and he will probably facing penal and not Conscripts) they can simply retreat. One's pioneer will have taken damage and dealt little.
If one spends munition on flamers one is delaying his healing so his pios will not be able to attack with full health. In addition one is also delaying weapons for grenadiers. One might also find himself without P.F. when you need it.
The target size is rather irrelevant when it comes to flamers it has 100% accuracy.
CE are also cheaper and unless mistaken have lower XP value.
Finally flamer work allot better with CE rifles than Pioneers MP-40. Flamer optimum range is 20 and the rest of squad is usually even further back where the MP-40 contribute allot less Damage then the mosin.
I suggested you test CE with flamer pioneer with flamer in game and see who you can vet easier.
9 Jun 2019, 14:20 PM
#17
Posts: 8154 | Subs: 2
Could you kill two birds with one stone here?
251 Support Upgrade
- 30 munitions
- +80 HP (320 to 400)
- Adds a Repair Aura lockdown like the USF M3 used to have
- Locks out flamer
That'd help with both infantry and vehicular presence, and would give you a reason to get a 251 for non-flamer duties.
The 251 can somehow see some use from time to time.
What it could be touched instead is the reinforce bunker no one ever uses. Make it a BP3 linked upgrade if it's merit to gate it down later in the game.
My controls weren't working
And if they were, you were playing dishonorably,
And if you weren't, you were playing without skill,
And if you were, it's not fun to play that way,
And if it is, you only care about winning.
Bible of Scrublord, Psalt 3:16.
And if they were, you were playing dishonorably,
And if you weren't, you were playing without skill,
And if you were, it's not fun to play that way,
And if it is, you only care about winning.
Bible of Scrublord, Psalt 3:16.
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