Buff Ostwind

I would try swapping with toned down wefer (or even a toned Brumbar ) and moving to T4. It would allow easier access to T4 and a Panther Ostwind combo that makes some sense. It would also give T3 some need indirect fire support.

I think a simple ROF increase or AOE increase will suffice

Panther + ostwind combo sounds interesting.

I am so thinking about changing the line-up a little bit, for balance and maybe to buff/nerf some units. There are some units don't fit.

T0:
-Pioniere
-Grenadiere
T1:
HMG42 (maybe change it with HMG34)
Sniper
Mortar
T2:
Panzergrenadiere
222
251
PaK40
T3:
StuG E
StuG G
Panzer 4
T4:
Panther
Panzerwerfer
Ostwind

Brummbär become a doc-unit instead of StuG E. StuG E moves to T3, to help Ostheer dealing with blobs, but decent. The Ostwind becomes T4, so it can be buffed.

...
T3:
StuG E
...

Going slitly off topic:
That is also a good approach although StuG E tends to become obsolete in late game with the high accuracy of 60 range allied TD.

Imo unit like the Brumbar need a redesign that might include:

High armor/HP to spear head assault.

Low but consistent damage to AI, new lasting critical effects like "shell shock" units suffer -15-25% accuracy -15%-25% speed

Very good damage vs units in garrison, heavy cover and vs building/emplacement.

Low damage vs Tanks lasting critical like "injured gunner/driver".

Or/and barrage mode or KV-2 indirect fire capability.

Emphasis here being utility (reduce the effectiveness of blobs, anti garrison anti-building, soft AT) over wipe potential.

(on another note I have no idea why mod team want to turn dozer into a mini Brumabar since so many complain about brumabrs performance. The idea that faction X has a great/OP unit lets give similar unit to faction Z (Riflemen/penal, USF mortar/Ostheer mortar, Guards/Obers, commando/storm-troopers, Croc/KV-8,...), seems bad to me)

(on another note I have no idea why mod team want to turn dozer into a mini Brumabar since so many complain about brumabrs performance. The idea that faction X has a great/OP unit lets give similar unit to faction Z (Riflemen/penal, USF mortar/Ostheer mortar, Guards/Obers,commando/storm-troopers, Croc/KV-8,...), seems bad to me)

Because everyone is a little bit of a fanboy… and fanboys don't care. ^^

But yes, this changes would ne nice.

One can simply make it a timed ability costing MU or a barrage similar to bofors.

That's exactly what I suggested. Either a timed ability to suppress, or some kind of Hull-down with limited range (less than an MG) and a 160 degrees arch (360 suppression will be op). Or a targeted ability to instantly suppress a squad.

And that range is only 1

For what it matters, the damage is similar besides 0-10 range, which almost no infantry squad manages to get into range.


Random thought. Would Ostwind with MG suppression be broken ? Talking about 1/2 bulletins level of suppression.

I don't think it would be broken, but also think that what it really needs is to have the AA ability improved. At Vet 0, it seems almost worthless for AA. At Vet 3, it sometimes shoots down planes in a their first pass. I've watched it in comp stomps and seen it not fire at planes or unable to rotate the turret fast enough to fire at planes. Maybe just moving some or all of the rotation bonus from Vet 3 to Vet 0 would make this okay.

That said, it is interesting how this thread has so many replies yet there isn't any similar thread about the USF AA halftrack. To put it in comparison, for 30 more mp than the Ostwind, you can purchase a USF AA halftrack that has 1/2 as much health, 1/7 as much armor, and moves slower (at least in game - IRL the M15 was almost twice as fast). Even at that, people complained when the USF halftrack had a 360 degree firing arc so now the main armament only fires to the rear.

I don't think it would be broken, but also think that what it really needs is to have the AA ability improved. At Vet 0, it seems almost worthless for AA. At Vet 3, it sometimes shoots down planes in a their first pass. I've watched it in comp stomps and seen it not fire at planes or unable to rotate the turret fast enough to fire at planes. Maybe just moving some or all of the rotation bonus from Vet 3 to Vet 0 would make this okay.

That said, it is interesting how this thread has so many replies yet there isn't any similar thread about the USF AA halftrack. To put it in comparison, for 30 more mp than the Ostwind, you can purchase a USF AA halftrack that has 1/2 as much health, 1/7 as much armor, and moves slower (at least in game - IRL the M15 was almost twice as fast). Even at that, people complained when the USF halftrack had a 360 degree firing arc so now the main armament only fires to the rear.

I might not have mentioned it on this thread, but ALL DEDICATED AA units should reliable kill airplanes due to how they work right now. Quad, AA/Flak HT, Ostwind, Centaur, Bofor/Flak Emplacement (not HQ-not base bunker), should have similar performance.

I think that anything done to the Ostwind should be on top of having their AA buff to match other similar units.

I might not have mentioned it on this thread, but ALL DEDICATED AA units should reliable kill airplanes due to how they work right now. Quad, AA/Flak HT, Ostwind, Centaur, Bofor/Flak Emplacement (not HQ-not base bunker), should have similar performance.

I think that anything done to the Ostwind should be on top of having their AA buff to match other similar units.

You're talking incoming revamp or current live?
Because if latter, isn't there a bug preventing bofors from killing any airplanes at the moment?

You're talking incoming revamp or current live?
Because if latter, isn't there a bug preventing bofors from killing any airplanes at the moment?

Yep. I'm implying everyone should had simil perf.

I am so thinking about changing the line-up a little bit, for balance and maybe to buff/nerf some units. There are some units don't fit.

T0:
-Pioniere
-Grenadiere
T1:
HMG42 (maybe change it with HMG34)
Sniper
Mortar
T2:
Panzergrenadiere
222
251
PaK40
T3:
StuG E
StuG G
Panzer 4
T4:
Panther
Panzerwerfer
Ostwind

Brummbär become a doc-unit instead of StuG E. StuG E moves to T3, to help Ostheer dealing with blobs, but decent. The Ostwind becomes T4, so it can be buffed.

That is actually a pretty good idea.

I don't think it would be broken, but also think that what it really needs is to have the AA ability improved. At Vet 0, it seems almost worthless for AA. At Vet 3, it sometimes shoots down planes in a their first pass. I've watched it in comp stomps and seen it not fire at planes or unable to rotate the turret fast enough to fire at planes. Maybe just moving some or all of the rotation bonus from Vet 3 to Vet 0 would make this okay.

That said, it is interesting how this thread has so many replies yet there isn't any similar thread about the USF AA halftrack. To put it in comparison, for 30 more mp than the Ostwind, you can purchase a USF AA halftrack that has 1/2 as much health, 1/7 as much armor, and moves slower (at least in game - IRL the M15 was almost twice as fast). Even at that, people complained when the USF halftrack had a 360 degree firing arc so now the main armament only fires to the rear.

That's because the USF AAHT comes in Tier 2 and costs less fuel, and therefore comes much earlier when there are far less counters available. The USF AAHT hits the field during the infantry-heavy stage of the game, whereas Ostwind comes out at the medium armour stage of the game. Doubt anyone would still be complaining about T70 if it's placed in T4 instead of T3.

Not sure if you realised also, but the AAHT suppresses enemy infantry. The Ostwind is a super expensive 222 atm and does decent anti-infantry damage. The AAHT is a HMG on wheels with no setup time, excellent damage and suppression, does well vs light vehicles, and can't be flanked by an infantry squad or taken out by a mortar.

There's a reason many USF players get the AAHT while practically no one builds Ostwinds.

Another approach would be to make Ostwind extremely good vs Light vehicles/tanks.

This could be done by giving Ostwind have access to AP rounds which is historically correct since it could fire such rounds. There even reports 37mm gun could destroy T-34.

In game the the AP round could serve as a hard counter to light tanks like the T-70, Stuart, valentine...The unit might need some additional changes like smaller size and more speed to be able to chase these units.

The Centaur already completely destroys most axis light vehicles and tanks while Ostheer seem to struggle against such vehicles.

If the Ostwind was reliable against lights it'd be a much more popular vehicle in my opinion.

That's because the USF AAHT comes in Tier 2 and costs less fuel, and therefore comes much earlier when there are far less counters available. The USF AAHT hits the field during the infantry-heavy stage of the game, whereas Ostwind comes out at the medium armour stage of the game. Doubt anyone would still be complaining about T70 if it's placed in T4 instead of T3.

Not sure if you realised also, but the AAHT suppresses enemy infantry. The Ostwind is a super expensive 222 atm and does decent anti-infantry damage. The AAHT is a HMG on wheels with no setup time, excellent damage and suppression, does well vs light vehicles, and can't be flanked by an infantry squad or taken out by a mortar.

There's a reason many USF players get the AAHT while practically no one builds Ostwinds.

Yes, I realize that it suppresses, but the time that you can use it offensively in anything larger than a 2v2 is pretty short. After about 8-10 minutes, your chances of running into 2 AT guns and losing it instantly is pretty good. I also don't build Ostwinds, but for a different reason. It's easy to keep alive but never seems to do enough damage/kills to justify buying it (at least in large team games).

PS - I just tried it in a 4v4, and got it killed by a single cloaked Raketen that held fire until I was too close to escape the second shot. It suppresses about as well as the OKW version but still seemed kind of underwhelming. The most interesting thing about the game was that I am pretty sure I was playing against Ullumu (sp?).

Another approach would be to make Ostwind extremely good vs Light vehicles/tanks.

This could be done by giving Ostwind have access to AP rounds which is historically correct since it could fire such rounds. There even reports 37mm gun could destroy T-34.

In game the the AP round could serve as a hard counter to light tanks like the T-70, Stuart, valentine...The unit might need some additional changes like smaller size and more speed to be able to chase these units.

The Centaur already completely destroys most axis light vehicles and tanks while Ostheer seem to struggle against such vehicles.

A RoF buff I proposed for Ostwind would achieve that, and would make it somewhat more effective vs infantry.

Right now its meh for its price against both lights and infantry.

A RoF buff I proposed for Ostwind would achieve that, and would make it somewhat more effective vs infantry.

Right now its meh for its price against both lights and infantry.

I doubt it, with 40 damage and 35 far penetration it needs 10 penetrating shots vs a T-70 when it haves 50% to penetrate.

By comparison a Centaur can obliterate a axis light vehicle 1-2 bursts.

I doubt it, with 40 damage and 35 far penetration it needs 10 penetrating shots vs a T-70 when it haves 50% to penetrate.

By comparison a Centaur can obliterate a axis light vehicle 1-2 bursts.

Which light vehicle?
Because you most certainly do not talk about Luchs here and comparing light tank to a half truck is a lil bit.... bias enforcing.

I doubt it, with 40 damage and 35 far penetration it needs 10 penetrating shots vs a T-70 when it haves 50% to penetrate.

By comparison a Centaur can obliterate a axis light vehicle 1-2 bursts.

Maybe pen values could be looked at (both Centaur and Ostwind).

There has to be a role and a character, right now the Centaur indeed obliterates Axis light and infantry alike, sometimes even when you pull them back immiditately. I feel it would be needed to be more of a hard counter to infantry / weapon teams and a soft counter vs lights (meaning, probably should reduce the pen).

In contrast, I can see a role for the Ostwind as a hard counter for lights and a generic (non-hard) counter vs infantry. The role being to dispatch Allied lights if they went for a light build and give your own infantry support vs Allied infantry (but still not being self sufficient).

OTOH one needs to be careful not to create a situation where bumping into an Ostwind make you loose (generally far more expensive) Allied light without reasonable chance to escape. So that makes me wary of increasing the pen because it again gives you far too guaranteed, but due to low damage, meh results. Increasing rof on the other hand would boost potential damage vs lights, limited by clip size.