soviet early game solutions
Posts: 598
i understand why the allied faction needed upgrades in vcoh because a fully upgraded rifleman can dominate volksgrenadiers and grenadiers, because the whermacht faction needs to buy veterancy upgrades to make them stronger. however, soviet conscripts still cannot beat the german grenadiers even when fully upgraded, and the germans does not buy veterancy, so it does not make much sense to mirror the soviet faction to the american one.
since, german scout cars are even more deadly when upgraded and flame halftrack are still very strong, and at nades no longer does 100 pct crits, it doesn't make sense why soviets need to purchase their upgrades. soviets should not have to purchase their moltovs since they need more dps on the now more robust german mg42s. as these new patches come by, it makes it less understandable why the soviets need to buy upgrades for their abilities as german things get stronger and soviet things gets much weaker.
also now that german pioneers are able to take on soviet engineers why are the soviet engineers still more expensive? the soviet engineer price should be reduced to 200mp. another weird thing is, both pioneers and engineers consume a popcap of 6 when they are 4 men squads that are not very combat effective that also needs to change so the player can field more infantry.
so what i want is, soviet conscripts should come with their moltovs and at nades from the start, engineers should be 200 manpower, and pioneers and engineers should consume 4 pop instead of 6. if you want to have upgrades from the soviet hq the soviets should have resource upgrades in their HQs like the german opelz. that would make a lot more sense and balance things a little more.
others tell me what you think or your own suggestions on improving early game and if you like it make sure relics reads this!
Posts: 644
so what i want is, soviet conscripts should come with their moltovs and at nades from the start,
that would screw with t2 and t3 timings pretty hard.
relic needs to tune down the MG42 and improve flanking in the game overall. also a slight damage reduction on pgrens. and 222 needs to be break faster to HMG fire. right now you can just drive it into the enemy base and camp the HQ and there is nothing soviet can do about it (unless 2xcons at nade maybe, yay new meta)
Posts: 337
Posts: 51
Posts: 2425
Permanently BannedThough still, I dont see the problem.
Use light vehicles vs MG42s. Problem solved.
If your trying to beat an HMG with one infantry squad, you deserve to get F'd in the A.
And someone suggesting PGren dmg nerf? All my lols...
Posts: 139
Posts: 2425
Permanently BannedMG42 already has only 3/4 the survival of Maxims.
What exactly are you specifically suggesting should be changed on MG42?
(PS: 42 total 1v1s played is not really much for balance discussion either, bro)
Posts: 928
I even had 2 stars of vet on it.
Posts: 337
Yes, its called asymmetric balance.
MG42 already has only 3/4 the survival of Maxims.
What exactly are you specifically suggesting should be changed on MG42?
(PS: 42 total 1v1s played is not really much for balance discussion either, bro)
I'm not sure if you play Soviets, but you can't really commit to M3s because ACs usually come out within a minute of the first M3. Guards counter the ACs, but those same MG42s also owns guards.
Posts: 2425
Permanently BannedI'm not sure if you play Soviets, but you can't really commit to M3s because ACs usually come out within a minute of the first M3. Guards counter the ACs, but those same MG42s also owns guards.
What exactly are you specifically suggesting should be changed on MG42?
Posts: 954
Posts: 337
What exactly are you specifically suggesting should be changed on MG42?
The devs mentioned creating a damage received modifier so that they take more damage from small arms while remaining robust against snipers and explosives. This would reward flanking a bit more.
It seems pretty reasonable.
However, I believe conscripts need a small buff on top of this. Possibly make Molotov research cheaper or throw faster.
Posts: 1006
Posts: 2425
Permanently Banned
The devs mentioned creating a damage received modifier so that they take more damage from small arms while remaining robust against snipers and explosives. This would reward flanking a bit more.
It seems pretty reasonable.
Guess what. That will apply to Maxims too.
MG42s already have only 3/4 the staying power of Maxims.
Posts: 598
that would screw with t2 and t3 timings pretty hard.
relic needs to tune down the MG42 and improve flanking in the game overall. also a slight damage reduction on pgrens. and 222 needs to be break faster to HMG fire. right now you can just drive it into the enemy base and camp the HQ and there is nothing soviet can do about it (unless 2xcons at nade maybe, yay new meta)
i don't see why free moltovs and at nades will disrupt t2, and t3 as soviet buildings cost a lot and have long build times, and moltovs and at nades are optional.
also the soviets needs the at nade to have any chance against scout cars and flame halftracks when guards aren't available. + guards need to button halftracks to kill it, which is easily disabled by smoke. and at guns can't be around most of the time because they are so damn expensive. also moltovs are not very useful when someone is vigilant enough to dodge them and therefore not many players use them. ( although they are useful because of the damn bug that if one squad member got caught in the fire the rest will jump in for some reason )
Posts: 598
Guess what. That will apply to Maxims too.
MG42s already have only 3/4 the staying power of Maxims.
mg42s have 3/4th the survivability but twice the suppression and 3x the arc, it's a pretty good trade off do you think?
Posts: 2425
Permanently Banned
mg42s have 3/4th the survivability but twice the suppression and 3x the arc, it's a pretty good trade off do you think?
Its not double suppression (which otherwise is asymmetrically balanced vs Maxims higher nominal and effective DPS), and the arc is asymmetrically balanced vs Maxims faster setup.
The survival difference really isn't compensated for asymmetrically, and used to be even worse.
Do you not remember that MG42s and Ost Support teams used to infact have only 1/2 the survival of Sov Support teams?
Posts: 51
Posts: 665
If I manage to flank your 140 degree arc MG, I deserve to turn its crew into carrior fodder in short order. That's assuming it doesn't simply pack up and stroll away towards a group of grenadiers while the conscripts fire uselessly at them. Fortunately, it seems Relic agrees.
Posts: 2425
Permanently Banned1) What exactly are you specifically suggesting should be changed on MG42?
2) And why do people keep bringing up explicitly MG42 survival, completely disregsrding that it is akready at 3/4 of Maxim survival? Do you think a MG42 at 1/2 survival of Maxim is realistic or conducive to balance?
I understand that people feel they have claims on this issue, but nobody is giving any concrete specific solution suggestions. Nor do I see anyone trying to reconcile those suggestions with the existing HMG situation on both factions.
Essentially, it amounts to whine with no solution presented, and no consideration of how those changes would match up asymmetrically to Maxim.
Ill run through the apparent asymmetry again.
= Ost Arc vs Sov Setup
= Ost Pin vs Sov DPS
= Sov 6 man vs Ost 4 man
If you have a differing perspective on that asymmetry, please explain it.
If you have a suggestion how to re-align that asymmetry for better balance, please elaborate on that and explain it.
Otherwise this leads nowhere.
NOTE:
- I think people are not understanding the difference between Suppressed and Pinned. The difference in pinning time between HMGs is not as dramatic as people are mkaing it out to be. 2 Bursts from Maxim WILL suppress infantry.
- As difficult as it is to maneuver around the MG42s arc, that is mitigated by two core factors:
-i) Oorah
-ii) The MG42 takes longer to reposition to reapply fire on a succesful flank.
Meaning that though the arc is narrower on a Maxim, and thus flanking action is more essily frontally achievable, it ALSO means the Maxim can proportionately quicker relocate to apply fire on that flank. This is asymmetric balance in practice.
The survival issue is, to me, a complete misnomer. MG42s already operate at 3/4 survival. Its a fallacy to claim that MG42s are too hard to damage with small arms, when infact Maxims are EVEN MORESO. Any claim that MG42s are too survivable, is also a claim that Maxims are EVEN MORE too survivable.
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