The XP value of units need to be looked at. A number of units had their stats and prices adjusted but no changes where made to their XP values. As a result they are now gaining veterancy too fast or too slow.
Su-76 is a prime example of unit vetting to fast.
Imo all units XPs values need to be looked at.
(Certain units like KV-8 or Hezter that deal damage mostly to infantry should also gain veterancy faster, made it possible to apply a bonus damage and penalty at the same time so that they gain more XP from killing infantry?)
(vet bonuses and abilities also need to be looked at but I am trying to keep it simple. For instance accuracy on the main gun of the 222 offer very little to the unit).
XP values need to be looked at.
11 Apr 2018, 14:18 PM
#1
Posts: 13476 | Subs: 1
11 Apr 2018, 14:20 PM
#2
Posts: 4183 | Subs: 4
*Cough* JP4 vet 5 14000 XP, *COUGH* su85 vet 3 7000XP *cough*
11 Apr 2018, 14:33 PM
#3
Posts: 1890 | Subs: 1
Off the top of my head I'd add King Tiger to that list too probably - since the gunner was given schnapps and misses more now it vets even more painfully slow then it did before. I'd be hesitant to lower TD XP requirements too much since they become dominant very quickly once they reach Vet 2-3.
11 Apr 2018, 14:36 PM
#4
Posts: 17891 | Subs: 8
SU-76 almost always shoots at targets of much greater value - cheaper units damaging expensive units always vetted quickly.
The same in reverse applies to flame tanks and why they never can get any vet before being wiped themselves.
I'm in full support of re-evaluating vet of eastern factions as their veterancy for most part is still very generalist and ignores specialist units, unlike WFA factions vet which provides both, varied stats tailored to the units use and interesting passives.
The same in reverse applies to flame tanks and why they never can get any vet before being wiped themselves.
I'm in full support of re-evaluating vet of eastern factions as their veterancy for most part is still very generalist and ignores specialist units, unlike WFA factions vet which provides both, varied stats tailored to the units use and interesting passives.
Maybe it's 'cause the Axis players aren't a bunch of forum crybabies, and they keep their cool and fight the uphill battle, unlike some of their "allied" counterparts.
11 Apr 2018, 15:30 PM
#5
Posts: 13476 | Subs: 1
SU-76 almost always shoots at targets of much greater value - cheaper units damaging expensive units always vetted quickly.
...
The XP value of the SU-76 is simply very low, regardless of anything else.
11 Apr 2018, 16:57 PM
#6
Posts: 955
Yep. Some units end up on full-vet after a single combat, while other just never make it to the top.
I guess the second mentioned should be looked at primarly. Anyone ever seen a vet5 Kubel? A vet3 AT-gun?
Also goliath has a problem with gaining veterancy
I guess the second mentioned should be looked at primarly. Anyone ever seen a vet5 Kubel? A vet3 AT-gun?
Also goliath has a problem with gaining veterancy
"Nice. Very impressive. Now let´s see Paul Allen´s playercard."
11 Apr 2018, 17:13 PM
#7
Posts: 17891 | Subs: 8
Vet3 ATGs aren't all that uncommon, but they don't last.
And I did seen vet5 kubel 2 times, kubel however is a victim of not a singular light other then 222 being able to last long enough to deal enough damage to vet up.
100 keks at goliath.
And I did seen vet5 kubel 2 times, kubel however is a victim of not a singular light other then 222 being able to last long enough to deal enough damage to vet up.
100 keks at goliath.
Maybe it's 'cause the Axis players aren't a bunch of forum crybabies, and they keep their cool and fight the uphill battle, unlike some of their "allied" counterparts.
11 Apr 2018, 17:13 PM
#8
Posts: 390 | Subs: 2
OKW LEFH vet is a weird one. It just seems like they took the vet 3 Ost LEFH bonuses and spread them out over 5 levels which doubles the XP requirement to get useful stats like +33% range.
11 Apr 2018, 17:15 PM
#9
Posts: 4183 | Subs: 4
OKW LEFH vet is a weird one. It just seems like they took the vet 3 Ost LEFH bonuses and spread them out over 5 levels which doubles the XP requirement to get useful stats like +33% range.
This is true, which makes it theoredically worse. However since the base scatter stats on the OKW LeFH are actually better than the counterpart it is technically better. But is it worth doubling the XP requirements is the question.
11 Apr 2018, 17:30 PM
#10
Posts: 1044 | Subs: 1
*Cough* JP4 vet 5 14000 XP, *COUGH* su85 vet 3 7000XP *cough*
Kill 4 tanks with a jp4 vet 1 Kill 4 tanks with a su85 vet 3
Also (atleast for me) rakens are super hard to vet that might just be bc they are dying all the time
bg /l
11 Apr 2018, 18:03 PM
#11
Posts: 8154 | Subs: 2
*Cough* JP4 vet 5 14000 XP, *COUGH* su85 vet 3 7000XP *cough*
Why do you compare vet3 against vet 5? In the case of the JPIV, vet 4 and 5 are extra bonuses.
Stug: 1510/3020/6040
Su85: 1790/3580/7160
JPIV: 2150/4300/8600/10750/14298
FF: 2160/4320/8640
Jack: 2160/4320/8640
Note that getting vet4 and vet 5 is easier cause the xp value needed is not 2x rather than 25% and 33% increase.
For the Su85, it's not like it's crazy low, it's just outdated after the cost increase and performance change. Same with Su76 with was just a crap unit and then reworked (in this case, yeah extremely low).
Su76: 870xp 280/75
AEC: 1160xp 280/60
Stug 1510xp 280/90
Puma OH: 1170xp
Puma OKW: 1340xp 320/70
M10: 1440xp
Stuart/T70/P2: 870xp
It should mimic the Puma/AEC range.
BTW: where do you look for unit xp value? I mean, how much XP they grant when getting hit.
Offtopic: :rip: http://stat.coh2.hu/ ? Damn it's annoying to look for XP values now. Any other site ?
My controls weren't working
And if they were, you were playing dishonorably,
And if you weren't, you were playing without skill,
And if you were, it's not fun to play that way,
And if it is, you only care about winning.
Bible of Scrublord, Psalt 3:16.
And if they were, you were playing dishonorably,
And if you weren't, you were playing without skill,
And if you were, it's not fun to play that way,
And if it is, you only care about winning.
Bible of Scrublord, Psalt 3:16.
11 Apr 2018, 18:07 PM
#12
Posts: 390 | Subs: 2
This is true, which makes it theoredically worse. However since the base scatter stats on the OKW LeFH are actually better than the counterpart it is technically better. But is it worth doubling the XP requirements is the question.
I'd much rather it have the same base stats, and vet 1-3 mirror OST 100% since the range bonuses improve scatter IIRC.
11 Apr 2018, 18:18 PM
#13
Posts: 4474
whish they actually were extra bonuses, they just diluited vet 3 in 5 vet
Why do you compare vet3 against vet 5? In the case of the JPIV, vet 4 and 5 are extra bonuses.
Camouflage reveal radius from 10 to 20
Veterancy 2 armour and sight bonus removed
Veterancy 2 now increases accuracy by 20%
Veterancy 5 ambush modifiers from +150% to +25%
katitof-2018
Katitof-2018
Katitof-2018
11 Apr 2018, 18:23 PM
#14
Posts: 4183 | Subs: 4
Why do you compare vet3 against vet 5? In the case of the JPIV, vet 4 and 5 are extra bonuses.
Stug: 1510/3020/6040
Su85: 1790/3580/7160
JPIV: 2150/4300/8600/10750/14298
FF: 2160/4320/8640
Jack: 2160/4320/8640
Note that getting vet4 and vet 5 is easier cause the xp value needed is not 2x rather than 25% and 33% increase.
For the Su85, it's not like it's crazy low, it's just outdated after the cost increase and performance change. Same with Su76 with was just a crap unit and then reworked (in this case, yeah extremely low).
It should mimic the Puma/AEC range.
BTW: where do you look for unit xp value? I mean, how much XP they grant when getting hit.
Offtopic: :rip: http://stat.coh2.hu/ ? Damn it's annoying to look for XP values now. Any other site ?
I use mod tools for everything I can. Only reliable source imo. I compare vet 3 to vet 5 because theoredically vet 3 should be equal to OKWs vet 5. But since the JP4 specifically vet 5 is utter garbage now, it really is hardly worth even getting.
11 Apr 2018, 18:31 PM
#15
Posts: 8154 | Subs: 2
I use mod tools for everything I can. Only reliable source imo. I compare vet 3 to vet 5 because theoredically vet 3 should be equal to OKWs vet 5. But since the JP4 specifically vet 5 is utter garbage now, it really is hardly worth even getting.
Takes too long when i'm looking for some simple values. Whenever i want reliable, i use the old extractor and through a notepad++.
Vet3 is not supposed to be equal to OKW vet 5 on ALL cases. Just take a look at OH PV vs OKW PV. They are basically equal on the first 3 lvs. Same with other vehicles or infantry units.
Not sure what would you expect out of a passive added bonus.
Doing 400 damage with guaranteed acc and pen, on top of old cammo was utterly bonkers. You are basically getting First strike/ambush bonus with the added damage component.
My controls weren't working
And if they were, you were playing dishonorably,
And if you weren't, you were playing without skill,
And if you were, it's not fun to play that way,
And if it is, you only care about winning.
Bible of Scrublord, Psalt 3:16.
And if they were, you were playing dishonorably,
And if you weren't, you were playing without skill,
And if you were, it's not fun to play that way,
And if it is, you only care about winning.
Bible of Scrublord, Psalt 3:16.
11 Apr 2018, 18:52 PM
#16
Posts: 13476 | Subs: 1
....
Vet3 is not supposed to be equal to OKW vet 5 on ALL cases. Just take a look at OH PV vs OKW PV. They are basically equal on the first 3 lvs. Same with other vehicles or infantry units.
Not sure what would you expect out of a passive added bonus.
Doing 400 damage with guaranteed acc and pen, on top of old cammo was utterly bonkers. You are basically getting First strike/ambush bonus with the added damage component.
Actually OKW P4 has worse rear armor since it start with less armor and gets no armor bonus.
11 Apr 2018, 20:25 PM
#17
Posts: 4183 | Subs: 4
Takes too long when i'm looking for some simple values. Whenever i want reliable, i use the old extractor and through a notepad++.
Vet3 is not supposed to be equal to OKW vet 5 on ALL cases. Just take a look at OH PV vs OKW PV. They are basically equal on the first 3 lvs. Same with other vehicles or infantry units.
Not sure what would you expect out of a passive added bonus.
Doing 400 damage with guaranteed acc and pen, on top of old cammo was utterly bonkers. You are basically getting First strike/ambush bonus with the added damage component.
I don't expect the JP4 to have its old OP 150% damage/pen buff. But one of the best ways to balance all factions would be by making OKW vet 5 = vet 3 of the other factions. Otherwise the faction would be weaker/stronger in different game modes that adhere to more early/lategame play whichever the case. I.e. If OKWs vet 3 was equal to other factions vet 3 they'd be batshit OP in teamgames since teamgames tend to go much deeper into lategame.
11 Apr 2018, 20:57 PM
#18
Posts: 1044 | Subs: 1
OKW's Vet 5 system is broken, another thing Relic decided to change when it was a fundamental game mechanic around vet 3 systems.
Balancing a Vet 5 unit is difficult. If the Vet is equal to a Vet 3 is would be broken as it would get its Vets super fast. Yet some units now are almost impossible to get Vet 5 with.
Balancing a Vet 5 unit is difficult. If the Vet is equal to a Vet 3 is would be broken as it would get its Vets super fast. Yet some units now are almost impossible to get Vet 5 with.
bg /l
11 Apr 2018, 21:01 PM
#19
Posts: 390 | Subs: 2
OKW's Vet 5 system is broken, another thing Relic decided to change when it was a fundamental game mechanic around vet 3 systems.
Balancing a Vet 5 unit is difficult. If the Vet is equal to a Vet 3 is would be broken as it would get its Vets super fast. Yet some units now are almost impossible to get Vet 5 with.
Make vet 1-3 give raw buffs to stats, and vet 4/5 unlock abilities. EZPZ
12 Apr 2018, 07:11 AM
#20
Posts: 2243
i seen vet3 mortar emplacment pits with 1 kill
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