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russian armor

Mortar pit veterancy

16 Jul 2016, 23:39 PM
#21
avatar of Superhet

Posts: 132

jump backJump back to quoted post16 Jul 2016, 22:54 PMwouren

As the mortar pit is only good on certain maps and stuff.


It's bad on every map. It has the same weaknesses, but each map style accentuates some of them.

A linear map like Road to Kharkov means scouting its construction and anticipating its placement will be easier, while indirect fire can be concentrated without inconvenience alone or with a forward HQ/reinforce halftrack to destroy it. A wide map like Moscow Outskirts means it can't keep up support of your forces properly and will be vulnerable to a direct attack if you don't blob around it thus tying your units down. A balanced map merely makes both apply equally rather than accentuating one.

The mortar pit is something you build not because you want to but because you have no other choice. And the advanced emplacement doctrine probably makes people assume it's better than it actually is.
16 Jul 2016, 23:55 PM
#22
avatar of elchino7
Senior Moderator Badge

Posts: 8154 | Subs: 2

2.It outranges other mortars (only by 9 if you compare barrages)


You are probably looking at stats.coh2 which list the barrage with veterancy applied on them.

Mortar pits AA is set to 115 while normal mortars are on 80. The barrage indeed gets to 106 but only if it's vet3.

17 Jul 2016, 01:19 AM
#23
avatar of Superhet

Posts: 132



You are probably looking at stats.coh2 which list the barrage with veterancy applied on them.

Mortar pits AA is set to 115 while normal mortars are on 80. The barrage indeed gets to 106 but only if it's vet3.



All right. Point being though that the increased range of the mortar pit is a necessity and not a bonus, as other mortars can simply move to adjust their range.
17 Jul 2016, 03:23 AM
#24
avatar of elchino7
Senior Moderator Badge

Posts: 8154 | Subs: 2



It's bad on every map. It has the same weaknesses, but each map style accentuates some of them.

A linear map like Road to Kharkov means scouting its construction and anticipating its placement will be easier, while indirect fire can be concentrated without inconvenience alone or with a forward HQ/reinforce halftrack to destroy it. A wide map like Moscow Outskirts means it can't keep up support of your forces properly and will be vulnerable to a direct attack if you don't blob around it thus tying your units down. A balanced map merely makes both apply equally rather than accentuating one.

The mortar pit is something you build not because you want to but because you have no other choice. And the advanced emplacement doctrine probably makes people assume it's better than it actually is.


1-Not true. It's AWESOME on small choke point map style. While a mortar pit has vulnerabilities on 1v1, it's not the same on 2v2+

2-If you let a mortar pit set down, it's a pain in the ass if you don't deal with it quickly.

3-On Moscow it may not be ideal to get one early on, but on either bot or top spawn near mid or behind hedge, it can provide enough support for the whole mid fight.

4-Any commander with stand fast also proves annoying to deal with. Cancer commanders makes you unable to deal with them on small maps using indirect fire at all.


All right. Point being though that the increased range of the mortar pit is a necessity and not a bonus, as other mortars can simply move to adjust their range.


Obviously that the range is a necessity since it's immobile. What some people argue is it's "afk" nature or lack of player input when using them.
Reduce autoattack range to 80/100 but give it's barrage a shorter duration and almost no cooldown. I'll say you could give it a secondary barrage with lower damage but a bit higher range as well.
17 Jul 2016, 04:30 AM
#25
avatar of Firesparks

Posts: 1930



You are probably looking at stats.coh2 which list the barrage with veterancy applied on them.

Mortar pits AA is set to 115 while normal mortars are on 80. The barrage indeed gets to 106 but only if it's vet3.



actually, it used to be 115 for both barrage and auto. The autofire range got nerfed with the previous patch
17 Jul 2016, 11:33 AM
#26
avatar of OZtheWiZARD

Posts: 1439

I think you guys neglect one thing.

I treat mortar pit like something I will eventually loose, so it's a MP investment to keep me in the game/ achieve my goal.
Because it's static and you can not relocate it you have 2 choices. You either build it defensively to protect something on your side of the map so you can easily defend it if needed or you build it offensively knowing at some stage you won't be able to defend it and it will eventually get destroyed. For that reason I'm OK with mortar pit having smaller Vet requirements however I do think the present one should be adjusted as it seems too low.
17 Jul 2016, 11:57 AM
#27
avatar of Arclyte

Posts: 692

Soooooo....

lower 120mm veterancy requirement plz ;)
17 Jul 2016, 13:29 PM
#28
avatar of DonnieChan

Posts: 2272 | Subs: 1

my suggestion is a
on vet 3 to make the game more enjoyable for everyone involved
17 Jul 2016, 16:40 PM
#29
avatar of elchino7
Senior Moderator Badge

Posts: 8154 | Subs: 2



actually, it used to be 115 for both barrage and auto. The autofire range got nerfed with the previous patch


??

Are you looking at the 10lb or the light version ? Also, i haven't seen anything on the changelog stating that (which wouldn't be strange if it was a ninja).

17 Jul 2016, 16:54 PM
#30
avatar of TheSleep3r

Posts: 670

my suggestion is a
on vet 3 to make the game more enjoyable for everyone involved


u sure like spamming useless whines over this mortar dont u
17 Jul 2016, 18:30 PM
#31
avatar of DonnieChan

Posts: 2272 | Subs: 1



u sure like spamming useless whines over this mortar dont u


and useless "balance suggestions" are better?
17 Jul 2016, 19:23 PM
#32
avatar of Mr.Smith

Posts: 2636 | Subs: 17

I don't think Donnie is overreacting about the mortar pit. Not one bit.
The systems of counters to this attrocity is just wrong, and brace only makes that worse.

On-topic:

Has anybody ever questioned why mortar pit has to gain veterancy to begin with? It's a structure, sure, but so are bunkers and the OKW Schwerer. Sure it costs popcap, but whatever.

Vet is there to reward unit preservation. However, do we really want the game to also reward emplacement preservation????

Regardless, Mortar pit veterancy is just... bad:
- Smoke shells should be stock at vet0 (with garrison or without garrison)
- Barrage veterancy is useless since mortar pit barrage is actually worse than auto-fire
- The only thing worth it is the +50% health, which is, well, cancerous.
17 Jul 2016, 20:44 PM
#33
avatar of Firesparks

Posts: 1930



??

Are you looking at the 10lb or the light version ? Also, i haven't seen anything on the changelog stating that (which wouldn't be strange if it was a ninja).



actually you are right

it's still 115 meter for the light version.
17 Jul 2016, 23:34 PM
#34
avatar of Superhet

Posts: 132

mortar pit barrage is actually worse than auto-fire


Certain about that?
17 Jul 2016, 23:40 PM
#35
avatar of Mr.Smith

Posts: 2636 | Subs: 17



Certain about that?


Yes. One of the mortars deals less damage per-shot, due to a never-fixed bug.

Besides, emplacements are all about playing your game micro-free. Why would you ever waste the time manually-aiming your barrages, when the mortar pit already does that for you for free?
18 Jul 2016, 00:02 AM
#36
avatar of Firesparks

Posts: 1930


Besides, emplacements are all about playing your game micro-free. Why would you ever waste the time manually-aiming your barrages, when the mortar pit already does that for you for free?


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