Jagdtiger Balance for 3v3+

Btw: JT/Ele make a great team with Command Panthers, delivering a whopping 720 damage with mark target.

Wait, does Command PV mark vehicle stack!? Or are you talking about both hitting the same target ? The best combo wombo still remains on the hands of heat shells vet5 JPIV with Command PV (800dmg)

Hmmm what would be the problem if pounder emplacement got it's range increase by 5 instead of bringing it down on the JT?

Bringing the cooldown up wouldn't be bad as in 1v1 (lol) or 2v2 you won't have the fuel to actually call one after losing it so quickly. So say you put it under a 10min cooldown, it won't be an issue at all.

As other had said, problem are the maps mostly and resource manipulation.

Wait, does Command PV mark vehicle stack!? Or are you talking about both hitting the same target ? The best combo wombo still remains on the hands of heat shells vet5 JPIV with Command PV (800dmg)

Hmmm what would be the problem if pounder emplacement got it's range increase by 5 instead of bringing it down on the JT?

Bringing the cooldown up wouldn't be bad as in 1v1 (lol) or 2v2 you won't have the fuel to actually call one after losing it so quickly. So say you put it under a 10min cooldown, it won't be an issue at all.

As other had said, problem are the maps mostly and resource manipulation.

If 17 had range increased then pak 43 probably should as well. Either they are the max range unit or not I think. Though no Allied tank has 80 range anyway.

The problem is in maps, not in JT.

You aren't wrong, maps that bottle neck are an issue but it doesn't help that it gets rounds that ignore shot blockers.


I think this unit wouldn't be such a large issue in team games if it
A. Didn't have 85 range (longest range of any unit other than arty)
B. Didn't get engine upgrade
C. Didn't get piercing rounds

While issue B can be disputed due to the 2.5 second "stun" issues A and C are still large issues that need looking into. The piercing round is overkill and allows a player who is out of position to still be able to use the unit effectively and the engine upgrade helps them push forward and reverse faster.
Issue A means that its kill zone is HUGE. Out ranging the 17 pndr by 5 might be historically but makes its vulnerability "speed" not a big deal as you simply can’t get to the unit nor counter it with dedicated AT.

All of this tied together makes 4v4s cancer, it’s hard to flank, hard to kill (due to high armor and hp), and it one shots units leave little counter play. Allies need a better way to deal with this unit rather than the "throw your whole army at this unit". Its simply a poor mechanic and needs changed.

If so it need some real buff like no crew shok ,faster ,can shoot trough the shoot blocker more health

Not really, the performance is just fine.

Yeah, this is very true. On essen, this is a nightmare with much arty/ISG.

JT is absolute trash/useless for its investment and compared to KT in Essen. one should generally be a noob if chooses JT over KT in Essen, believe me.

The problem is in maps, not in JT.

I agree, but not many maps tbh. A map like Redball is the best for it.

Not really, the performance is just fine.

Not for a 1 time call in if so we can do dat with Isu croc Pershing tiger elefant is2

Not for a 1 time call in if so we can do dat with Isu croc Pershing tiger elefant is2

Yes it is performing fine, even for a 1 time call in.

It wouldn't affect the smaller game modes at all, where it in most cases costs you the game if you go for a second JT. The unit is, unlike the other heavies you listed, problematic in the larger game modes, and any of the buffs you suggested would probably make it a borderline I win-button.

I don't really like limitations such as these, but for the JT I would actually approve it over a flat performance nerf as it is only a problem in the larger game modes. Doing it with a performance increase would nullify that change.

Yes it is performing fine, even for a 1 time call in.

It wouldn't affect the smaller game modes at all, where it in most cases costs you the game if you go for a second JT. The unit is, unlike the other heavies you listed, problematic in the larger game modes, and any of the buffs you suggested would probably make it a borderline I win-button.

I don't really like limitations such as these, but for the JT I would actually approve it over a flat performance nerf as it is only a problem in the larger game modes. Doing it with a performance increase would nullify that change.

Ok are you saying is over performing if so tell me how can it insta kill inf ?
The only 1 time call in is tiger ace is the JT like the tiger ace
Or cohv KT
And cost ton of fuel

Ok are you saying is over performing

It is completely fine in the smaller modes, overperforming on some maps (greatly on a few specific ones) in the bigger ones. IF there was going to be any changes to the unit, it should be targeted towards the bigger game modes, without upsetting the performance on the smaller ones. That includes performance nerfs/buffs imo, which wouldn't get my vote.

It is completely fine in the smaller modes, overperforming on some maps (greatly on a few specific ones) in the bigger ones. IF there was going to be any changes to the unit, it should be targeted towards the bigger game modes, without upsetting the performance on the smaller ones. That includes performance nerfs/buffs imo, which wouldn't get my vote.

"Over performing on some map" the problem is the map no the unit case closed
(Can be said for every unit)

Ok are you saying is over performing if so tell me how can it insta kill inf ?

You don't seem to be familiar with the HE ability at Vet1. It has a 125 range and it bascially counters it's counter: AT guns.

I'd say the best way to fight a Jagdtiger is just not play into its strengths. Don't, for instance, buy a lot of Jacksons to fight it. A Jagdtiger can't fight infantry at all and it can be swarmed by large numbers of fast and cheap tanks like M-10s and Cromwells.

Still, there's no getting around the fact that a properly protected Jagdtiger is incredibly powerful in 4v4s. Might be a balance issue but not a very big one imo and only in big team games.

Also, I'm really not sure how you would redesign this unit. imo the Jagdtiger does exactly what it's supposed to do - act like a mobile PaK43 with heavy armour - and not a lot more. Maybe a slight range nerf but that's about it.

Oh yeah, and I remain unconvinced that the crew shock mechanic is actually a good idea. I'd rather see it get removed and the Jagdtiger get a health nerf or something.

You don't seem to be familiar with the HE ability at Vet1. It has a 125 range and it bascially counters it's counter: AT guns.

Bahahaha. No.

"Over performing on some map" the problem is the map no the unit
(Can be said for every unit)

I'll correct that to one type of map. There's essentially not anything wrong with most of these maps, and essentially not anything wrong with the JT - just that with the JT's late game impact this causes problems. The same cannot be said of every unit, I can't think of any really that has this specific problem with the same lack of counterplay except for the sim city commander, which we all hate.

Bahahaha. No.

You don't seem to be familiar with the HE ability at Vet1. It has a 125 range and it bascially counters it's counter: AT guns.

It is the same thing with WW2 heavy tanks and modern MBTs. The tank counters the counters, if it is going to be a "mano a mano".

For those arguing that the JT does nothing to infantry. This is entirely incorrect. The JT is still dangerous to infantry and at vet 1 its ability makes it a defacto artillery piece.

Not investing heavily in TD's is arguably not an option in 4v4. At least one other player will have multiple tanks, and the Allied side needs to maintain enough AT to deal with fast flanking panthers. I also mentioned that "cheap tanks" are near impossible to trade effectively with the JT, especially against an OKW opponent with plentiful AT.

In larger team games this weakness is not reflected because it can be surrounded by potent AT and AI.

I dont think its an issue with the JT. This is the nature of a team game. Good players will always complement eachothers army.

If you play 3v3, and a soviet player spam maxims, the USF player spam rifles with LMG and the UKF player build two 17pounder, then its kinda normal if my volks blob get massacred when i try to get close to the ATguns. It doesnt mean any of those units are OP or broken, it just mean the 3 play complement eachothers army. But where is a tactic, there is a counter aswell..

dude you know the smallest terrain elevetion make useless this ability right ?

I dont think its an issue with the JT. This is the nature of a team game. Good players will always complement eachothers army.

If you play 3v3, and a soviet player spam maxims, the USF player spam rifles with LMG and the UKF player build two 17pounder, then its kinda normal if my volks blob get massacred when i try to get close to the ATguns. It doesnt mean any of those units are OP or broken, it just mean the 3 play complement eachothers army. But where is a tactic, there is a counter aswell..

While players complementing one another is a normal start, it doesn't take into effect that with the currant abilities the Jag is over preforming due to its engine upgrade (negating its slower speed), long range, HE rounds, and piercing shot. It is effectively an arty unit as it can bypass normal terrain issues other than sitting in the bottom of the hill on steppes and firing up. The unit NEEDS a range reduction at best to match that of other mobile heavy tanks at 70. The 85 range is over kill and should be toned down to allow for more counter play.

The piercing shot as I state earlier needs to be removed, units such as pack 43 should not be able to avoid terrain Collision due to some special rounds they get, simply not fair and not practical for gameplay balance.


Currently the only counter to jag tiger is to effectively "hurl" cheap tank at the unit making it as Imageless bean pointed out "impossible" to effectively trade fairly. OKW will always come out on top with its cost effectiveness.
This doesn't mean the stun is ok, it’s a dumb mechanics that only lasts for 2.5 seconds and only reduces its speed. As others have pointed out a HP reduction is a solid idea as the armor value for it is rather high in comparison to ele even.

TLDR: Match stats with ele (Basically), remove cheese abilities.