UKF will be hopeless with the new patch

balancing in game phase is a flawed way of balance.

beside, if the british are suppose to have awesome late game, then the churchill and croc wouldn't be getting such a heavy nerf.

whether or not its flawed is really subjective. the churchill and croc are still awesome late game vehicles, even with the nerfs they perform very well thanks to the fact that theyre so cheap.

Asymmetrical balance.Like OKW don't have a stock HMG/sniper, USF don't have a stock sniper, Ost don't have stock light armors, Soviet don't have bunkers.

Asymmetrical balance means you don't have X feature within Y faction, but compensate for it with Z tool/unit/upgrade.

So lets break down your examples, shall we?

-OKW don't have a stock HMG/sniper

OKW also doesn't have fragile 1 model, expensive unit to protect from light armor rushes and they do have best AT upgrade on stock infantry, they still have the option to get the HMG through doctrine if player feels the need to, but the faction isn't dependent on it, so you have this option, moreover OKW is not really doctrine dependent, OKW doctrines open a lot of options though, specifically in elite infantry choices.

The compensations for OKW are quite obvious here.

-USF don't have a stock sniper

But they have some of the best stock infantry with now great scaling as well as variety of upgrades that can be mixed together for different situations, USF also have some of earliest and strongest light vehicles, combined use of mainline infantry and light vehicles makes up well for the loss of firepower that sniper would provide.

Again, compensated well for this shortcoming.

-Ost don't have stock light armors

Lets pretend for a while that 222 and 251 don't exist. Well, too bad they do. That is light armor, it have clear role and strengths, 222 can counter more expensive lights and is excellent scouting vehicle, if you lose it, you're not really on backfoot. 251 provides early on field reinforcement and can be upgraded with great area denial flamer weapons now. Ost does have light armor, it simply fills other roles and isn't designed to work independently, like light tanks.

Nothing to compensate here for, because the light armor is there.

-Soviet don't have bunkers.

Soviets have 2nd best mobility in game, the faction doesn't have or need bunkers, because it goes against its core design of aggressive play. You are supposed to force opponent into camping, not do it yourself.

So field presence capabilities(improved by ability to get faster M5 now with tech changes) makes up more then enough for lack of defensive structures.

Brits now on the other hand have no way of protecting the sniper using stock units at all or even score a kill on light armor, unless opponent overextends or you go side tech for expensive AEC, because PIATs are so shit. Being completely forced into single doctrine to be able to do so isn't really optimal.

whether or not its flawed is really subjective. the churchill and croc are still awesome late game vehicles, even with the nerfs they perform very well thanks to the fact that theyre so cheap.

540 mp 180 fuel is hardly "cheap".

the panther is 490 mp 175 fuel and it's known for being rather pricey. the wehr panther might be behind a stack of tech unlock, but in the preview the OKW panther is within reach even in a 1v1.

not that I think okw panther is too easy to access. I think the wehr t4 tech and t4 building need a drastically lower price.

540 mp 180 fuel is hardly "cheap".

the panther is 490 mp 175 fuel and it's known for being rather pricey. the wehr panther might be behind a stack of tech unlock, but in the preview the OKW panther is rather easy to access.

(not that I think okw panther is too easy to access.)

its cheap considering the fact that you dont need to spend that much fuel as brits. you can maintain map control with LMG sections and AT guns, and getting medium tanks is actually pretty unnecessary thanks to the fact that the sections are superior to axis infantry. in 1v1s and 2v2s however its a lot more likely to get comets, but ive managed to pull off 12-13 minute churchill timings with manpower/munition only builds in 2v2s thanks to the efficiency of sections/vickers/ATguns. youll never see that kind of timing on a panther.

crocodiles are even better because you dont even need to tech, rather just wait for the CPs. so if youre on the backfoot you can save fuel for a 180 fuel tank that has arguably better AI than a KT. in addition often times the time it takes for an enemy player to take out a crocodile is equal to the time it takes for you to get another 180 fuel.

if you look at the costs on their own, yes, its not that 'cheap' but when you look at the cost in the context of the faction, it is not that high of a price.

its cheap considering the fact that you dont need to spend that much fuel as brits. you can maintain map control with LMG sections and AT guns, and getting medium tanks is actually pretty unnecessary thanks to the fact that the sections are superior to axis infantry. in 1v1s and 2v2s however its a lot more likely to get comets, but ive managed to pull off 12-13 minute churchill timings with manpower/munition only builds in 2v2s thanks to the efficiency of sections/vickers/ATguns. youll never see that kind of timing on a panther.

crocodiles are even better because you dont even need to tech, rather just wait for the CPs. so if youre on the backfoot you can save fuel for a 180 fuel tank that has arguably better AI than a KT. in addition often times the time it takes for an enemy player to take out a crocodile is equal to the time it takes for you to get another 180 fuel.

if you look at the costs on their own, yes, its not that 'cheap' but when you look at the cost in the context of the faction, it is not that high of a price.

if we are including the teching cost, I am pretty sure that the new cost to get okw panther is as low if not lower than the cost to get comet/churchill.

and the croc is a call in. the same benefit of being a call in apply to the Tiger, kv8, and IS2 as well.

I also think applying the teching cost to the build cost of a unit is flawed.

The panther is such a great example since the OKW and Wehr have dramatically different resource requirement to get their own panther. The OKW panther is also a superior unit as well, since it have better machine gun and more accuracy main gun.

its cheap considering the fact that you dont need to spend that much fuel as brits. you can maintain map control with LMG sections and AT guns, and getting medium tanks is actually pretty unnecessary thanks to the fact that the sections are superior to axis infantry. in 1v1s and 2v2s however its a lot more likely to get comets, but ive managed to pull off 12-13 minute churchill timings with manpower/munition only builds in 2v2s thanks to the efficiency of sections/vickers/ATguns. youll never see that kind of timing on a panther.

crocodiles are even better because you dont even need to tech, rather just wait for the CPs. so if youre on the backfoot you can save fuel for a 180 fuel tank that has arguably better AI than a KT. in addition often times the time it takes for an enemy player to take out a crocodile is equal to the time it takes for you to get another 180 fuel.

if you look at the costs on their own, yes, its not that 'cheap' but when you look at the cost in the context of the faction, it is not that high of a price.

The combination of high health Pool and lighting fast repair speed adds further strenght to their lategame/tanks.

if we are including the teching cost, I am pretty sure that the new cost to get okw panther is as low if not lower than the cost to get comet/churchill.

and the croc is a call in. the same benefit of being a call in apply to the Tiger, kv8, and IS2 as well.

I also think applying the teching cost to the build cost of a unit is flawed.

The panther is such a great example since the OKW and Wehr have dramatically different resource requirement to get their own panther. The OKW panther is also a superior unit as well, since it have better machine gun and more accuracy main gun.

im just explaining that even with the most recent nerfs, the brits have extremely powerful lategame, and have the tools to counter a lot of lategame scenarios. their nerfs just bring them down from being unbeatable to a little bit less ridiculous.

im just explaining that even with the most recent nerfs, the brits have extremely powerful lategame, and have the tools to counter a lot of lategame scenarios.

a faction's line infantry is as important to their late game as their tanks. Such a substantial nerf to their basic infantry will inevitably mess up their late game.

Great late game doesn't matter if they can't survive past the early game.

In fact the preview have been a major buff to the okw's early game. In the early game the volks is fun to play with considering they can stand up against the conscript and rifleman.

a unit's line infantry is as important to their late game as their tanks. Such a substantial nerf to their basic infantry will inevitably mess up their late game.

Great late game doesn't matter if they can't survive past the early game.

from my experience in the games i played with these changes, you have to change how you play. be more cautious, stick to green cover more, use game sense to predict where the enemy will be. use houses effectively, and use the vickers to help win engagements. posturing and positioning has never been more important for brits. the tide starts to shift once you get the 5th man for your sections, or a sniper to help turn firefights in your favor. you cant expect to play the same as you did before and win the same engagements. have to adapt and relearn how to play.

Asymmetrical balance means you don't have X feature within Y faction, but compensate for it with Z tool/unit/upgrade.

Use M6 mine/AEC/piat/6pounder/Doctrinal IS AT-nade,If you simply build IS+sniper then want to rush to mediums without these things, sorry its your own problem.

a faction's line infantry is as important to their late game as their tanks. Such a substantial nerf to their basic infantry will inevitably mess up their late game

Ostheer says hello were their main line infantry is so shitty that most prefer ost Truppen and/or t2 rush for PzGrens. And ostheer has not the same god like lategame than brits..

The AEC would be ok if it was a bit cheaper in manpower and the vet ability worked at least half the time. Right now it is exclusively a command vehicle platform.

17pounder HP doesn't reflect its cost and popcap, it gets killed too easily.

The AEC does a lot more damage than people think + comes out at a strong time vs both ost and OKW.

17 lber can 2 shot medium tanks from really, really far away. It's very cost effective when properly placed and supported. Make it any stronger and you could lockdown half the map with it.

AHAHAHAHAHA


Zeroing arty never hits anything.... are you serious??

It is one of the most accurate arty in the game, it practically follows units in the target space.

zeroing art start drop after 10-15 sec delay and early rounds are all incredibly inaccurate, there is plenty time for units inside the area to move out the AOE area before real barrage drops. who ever stayed in the circle for that long is their own problem. zeroing art is only good to take out UKF enplacements and USF fighting positions only. which is exactly what Anvil art can do with 45MU, while Anvil art start droping after 2-4 secs at pin point center of the art first! it gives little time for units to react, there is no weapon group can get out that fire fast enough (HMG and mortar have some chance if lucky, AT gun is dead meat) , only way to get out the Anvil art on weapon team, is move as soon as the red smoke drops.

after a bit more fight...

this patch is going to encourage british lmg blobbing.

With the nerf to the lee enfield and the decrease of the out-of-cover penalty, the british are encouraged to use more bren and use simple attack move instead.

here is a chart listing the vanilla dps of the lee enfield and bren, but in and out of cover. Note that vanilla mean unmodded, no preview mod.

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1LOYMDi_XR7rILsk6HbAZqGihsk22t-45C_6NbQEP-m0/edit#gid=1496803838

the effect of the vanilla penalty is pretty minimal on the lee-enfield. The biggest effect is actually on the tommies' bren gun. This means that the british are discouraged from using a simple lmg blob and attack move his way into victory. The penalty mainly serve to punish mindless bren usage.

Unfortunately, with the lee-enfield weaker and the penalty lessen, british player now have more incentive to spam bren gun and attack move to victory.

(update: apparently the lee enfield nerf isn't even in the preview, although all the other tommies changes including the vet nerf, the RA nerf, and out of cover buff are still in)