UKF will be hopeless with the new patch

I played the mod, and I find it kinda frustrating that Volksgrenadier without any cover can move around the place and kill an IS squad in green cover.. There is certainly something off there.

I played the mod, and I find it kinda frustrating that Volksgrenadier without any cover can move around the place and kill an IS squad in green cover.. There is certainly something off there.

The thing that is off there is the fact that OKW hasn't a valid supression platform, for instance stock mg34. Volks can be as shitty as they were, for the 235 mp price of course, but then okw needs a stock mg. OR be like they are now, expensive (more expensive than grenadiers, you noticed that, did you?) with no stock mg covering their arses. Both solutions are valid in my view Lelic just need to pick one and they did like we all can see.

The thing that is off there is the fact that OKW hasn't a valid supression platform, for instance stock mg34. Volks can be as shitty as they were, for the 235 mp price of course, but then okw needs a stock mg. OR be like they are now, expensive (more expensive than grenadiers, you noticed that, did you?) with no stock mg covering their arses. Both solutions are valid in my view Lelic just need to pick one and they did like we all can see.

Its not really about volks buff, but rather IS overnerf.

People do not realize/know the size of impact 2 more dmg for volks and 2 less for tommies put together give in end results.

With the tommie hard nerf, they aren't really worth more then 260 in any way or form. They simply can't compete without dual brens anymore.

People do not realize/know the size of impact 2 more dmg for volks and 2 less for tommies put together give in end results.

Thinking about it, that can be an issue indeed, when the two units face each other.

Infantry Section needs its damage reverted back! I don't want to rely on commandos alone to stop the blob of over buffed OKW infantry mid and late game. Not to mention man power bleed on Brits is still an issue.

i waited for that moment a long time:

brits got good support weapons, they are isupposed to use combined arms like ostheer :'D

The thing that is off there is the fact that OKW hasn't a valid supression platform, for instance stock mg34. Volks can be as shitty as they were, for the 235 mp price of course, but then okw needs a stock mg. OR be like they are now, expensive (more expensive than grenadiers, you noticed that, did you?) with no stock mg covering their arses. Both solutions are valid in my view Lelic just need to pick one and they did like we all can see.

Who needs a MG if you can kill the units instead for pure DPS?? (which OKW is really good at)

Having a MG is just a tactic. Which in my opinion if that's your tactic, having a commander with one is good enough.

I'm on the top 50 leaderboards, and I don't build a single MG as Russia.

So please cry more about how you need a MG.

i waited for that moment a long time:

brits got good support weapons, they are isupposed to use combined arms like ostheer :'D

1) grens have utility in the form of faust and rifle nade as opposed to infantry sections
2) they don't have a mobile mortar, and that breaks the whole combined arms calculation.
Basically brits are a handicapped vesion of ostheer with some leftover gimmicks (commandos, officer, special weapons doctrine, firefly) left to rely upon. I can understand why you say that though.

Who needs a MG if you can kill the units instead for pure DPS?? (which OKW is really good at)

Having a MG is just a tactic. Which in my opinion if that's your tactic, having a commander with one is good enough.

I'm on the top 50 leaderboards, and I don't build a single MG as Russia.

So please cry more about how you need a MG.

So what is all the flame about? Chill dude, I don't think what I wrote should make you that angry.

1) grens have utility in the form of faust and rifle nade as opposed to infantry sections
2) they don't have a mobile mortar, and that breaks the whole combined arms calculation.
Basically brits are a handicapped vesion of ostheer with some leftover gimmicks (commandos, officer, special weapons doctrine, firefly) left to rely upon. I can understand why you say that though.

1) infantry sections can equip dual weapons and can tech nades too + can build sandbags for green cover, can upgrade to 5th man, in my oppinion thats utility too
2) lost last 2 games 2v2 AT games due mortar pits, they can be very, very good, and have a huuuge range especially with vet

i would disagree with brits beeing the handicapped version of ostheer, likely its the other way around.

but i can understand your points too

i waited for that moment a long time:

brits got good support weapons, they are isupposed to use combined arms like ostheer :'D

Let me get you in on a little secret, but promise you won't tell anyone.

Show Spoiler

Let me get you in on a little secret, but promise you won't tell anyone.

Show Spoiler

so whats the deal then? grens dont stand a chance against rifles and tommies, tommies dont stand a chance against volks. both factions needs to use the glorified combined arms to win versus their specific oppenents

so whats the deal then? grens dont stand a chance against rifles and tommies, tommies dont stand a chance against volks. both factions needs to use the glorified combined arms to win versus their specific oppenents

Let me in you on another secret then

Show Spoiler

People do not realize/know the size of impact 2 more dmg for volks and 2 less for tommies put together give in end results.

Exactly. Sometimes, it's not about the raw damage change rather the amount of shots you need to kill a target. Heck look at what happened to snipers by adding 2hp.

Let me in you on another secret then

Show Spoiler

sturmpios cost 40 manpower more than riflemen, yet they only win 1v1 under very specific circumstances? how is that fair then? soviet sniper costing the same as ost sniper but in a 1v1 soviet will always win because of 2 models? why does a kingtiger lose to a m10 in a 1v1?

let me tell you a secret
Show Spoiler

sturmpios cost 40 manpower more than riflemen, yet they only win 1v1 under very specific circumstances? how is that fair then? soviet sniper costing the same as ost sniper but in a 1v1 soviet will always win because of 2 models? why does a kingtiger lose to a m10 in a 1v1?

Sturmpios use weapons with completely different weapon profile, if they will get the jump on rifles, they will rip them apart, because, you know, they have assault rifle profile, which makes them potent and mid and short distances, while rifles have all-range profile, where they are still most effective at close range, but their long and mid range damage is still good, just like all rifle infantry(except cons), which means you will lose if you get enough damage on approach when you'll try to YOLO frontally.

Sniper duel argument makes as much sense as AT gun duel, just because they can fight each other, doesn't mean they are intended to, relic clearly indicated that infantry+light vehicles are supposed to be sniper counters, not other sniper, because you know, not all armies have snipers themselves. That being said, ost sniper can still use vet1 ability to one shot soviet reckon team.

As for the KT vs M10:

Why is your KT in the opponents base, because that is the only place where it won't have shreckblob support in its back?

If you're special kind of player and have lost all the infantry support and puppchens, why didn't you reversed from YOLOing M10? Why are you standing there, doing nothing while he micro'es his ass off, exploiting the intended weakness of KT, slow rotation and turret traverse? And last but not least, M10 is natural hardcounter to KT, not the other way around, you are supposed to protect KT from M10s with other units, not try to extinguish fire with gasoline.


Sooooooooooooooooooooooooo I'll flip this ball back at you:

let me tell you a secret
Show Spoiler

sturmpios cost 40 manpower more than riflemen, yet they only win 1v1 under very specific circumstances? how is that fair then?

Sturmpios for one are a mid to close range unit but you are also paying for additional utility (ability to repair, lay mines, lay barbed wire etc).

soviet sniper costing the same as ost sniper but in a 1v1 soviet will always win because of 2 models?

Sov sniper probably will win unless the vet ability is used. Prior to brits and the camo nerf on snipers, Ost could still win since it cloaked much faster. Regardless, Ost sniper has a much better ROF than the Sov one.

why does a kingtiger lose to a m10 in a 1v1?

Depends on what the M10 is doing and where they are positioned in the map, but M10 is a mobile tank destroyer, it should be able to kill slow units if it manages to flank it and there isn't anything else covering it. You can kill an SU85 with a Luchs, same thing applys. Shouldnt really happen though because you should be supporting these units with things that can protect them.

Comparing rifles / volks / grens / cons / IS makes sense because they all serve the same basic role. Comparing units with different roles won't always work since they are designed for different things and may have different costs.

Sturmpios use weapons with completely different weapon profile, if they will get the jump on rifles, they will rip them apart, because, you know, they have assault rifle profile, which makes them potent and mid and short distances, while rifles have all-range profile, where they are still most effective at close range, but their long and mid range damage is still good, just like all rifle infantry(except cons), which means you will lose if you get enough damage on approach when you'll try to YOLO frontally.

Sniper duel argument makes as much sense as AT gun duel, just because they can fight each other, doesn't mean they are intended to, relic clearly indicated that infantry+light vehicles are supposed to be sniper counters, not other sniper, because you know, not all armies have snipers themselves. That being said, ost sniper can still use vet1 ability to one shot soviet reckon team.

As for the KT vs M10:

Why is your KT in the opponents base, because that is the only place where it won't have shreckblob support in its back?

If you're special kind of player and have lost all the infantry support and puppchens, why didn't you reversed from YOLOing M10? Why are you standing there, doing nothing while he micro'es his ass off, exploiting the intended weakness of KT, slow rotation and turret traverse? And last but not least, M10 is natural hardcounter to KT, not the other way around, you are supposed to protect KT from M10s with other units, not try to extinguish fire with gasoline.


Sooooooooooooooooooooooooo I'll flip this ball back at you:

oh ok sorry, you started with expensive tommies losing to cheaper volks 1v1 and at the end you tell me something about kingtiger has support to back him up. so why dont you apply that logic to your tommies vs volks matchup? why is your tommie not supported by a vickers? oh and of course sturms have another damage profile, thats only fair then to be more expensive but still lose in most 1v1 scenarios to cheaper riflemen

let me tell you a secret
Show Spoiler

ps: you should go out and ask some local hunter how to set up real traps without cherry picking and logical flaws

nevermind

No idea why they did nerf Tommies ROF in cover, it was absolutely fine.

1) infantry sections can equip dual weapons and can tech nades too + can build sandbags for green cover, can upgrade to 5th man, in my oppinion thats utility too
2) lost last 2 games 2v2 AT games due mortar pits, they can be very, very good, and have a huuuge range especially with vet

i would disagree with brits beeing the handicapped version of ostheer, likely its the other way around.

but i can understand your points too

Well IS bren is not cost-effective because of the cover penalty and for the same reason they are terrible piat carriers. Nades are generally not worth it to tech, and 5th man is a combat efficiency upgrade. Sandbags/trenches are good but they don't really stand up to faust + riflenade.

Mortar pit can be very good, but it serves a different role from actual mortars. Mortar pit is a very good defensive tool, but it can never be offensive. That's a major problem, brits can dislodge entrenched positions only with brute force, and that is not always possible, even more so now with weaker infantry and croc.

Btw sturmpios are also engineers, they are weaker than rifles for the same reason pioneers are weaker than osttruppen.