Why Vaulting is Overrated

True but none of the ported maps do that. Semois is probably the worst offender, the middle is a no fly zone for MGs early game.

Maybe at your ranks MGd aren't good in mid. But in high level play MGs dominate the middle of semos. There is so much green cover and so many good houses to put them in. Unless you're against Brits... #CentaurBalance

There are very few maps left in the pool that MGs aren't strong on.

So your upset that a game design draw back (yea, I said it, infantry not being able to hop a small fence was pretty silly) made the game more interesting in the early game because there were small walls you could not go over. Really that just contributed to the static gameplay that plagued much of coh1 early on and led to so many sniper wars.

Basically what you are arguing is the same thing that old fighter game players whine about. How my old broken game had abuses that let me "skillfully" beat the shit out of you. Then, in the newer game they took it out by improving the game mechanics (im looking at you super smash brothers melee vs the newest one). while not nearly as noticeable in coh1vscoh2 compared to infinite combo air lock vs the new games which got rid of that, its still exactly what you are talking about.

Realistically wall hopping add more strategic play early on than took from it. Now the mg user has to worry about such consequences, and it gives more counterability to the other player.

Removed because I'm not contributing and there is nothing to gain.

I just wish vaulting wasn't so clunky.

Vaulting is actually a great feature that can be used by mappers to enhance earlygame in some ways or to reward mapknowledge.

Never thought about it as a bad feature honestly.

I have vaulted so many times and just got the enemy sniper. It gives me that "extra" dimension to the strategies you can make. To attack frontally, flank them from left and vault over a wall deeper in enemy territory to flank them from right/back. I've never played CoH 1 so I don't know how that was, but I think this would be better against no vaulting.

Well, this idea was well received...

Why Logic is overrated?

TBH I personally think that vaulting should auto-happen on retreat, but units moving over a fence take X amount of bonus damage. Because it makes sense.

Maybe at your ranks MGd aren't good in mid. But in high level play MGs dominate the middle of semos. There is so much green cover and so many good houses to put them in. Unless you're against Brits... #CentaurBalance

There are very few maps left in the pool that MGs aren't strong on.

They are still strong over the course of the game, but they are weaker in early minutes since great awareness very rarely translates to completely shutting down a early game flank with more than 1 MG. Keeping track in your mind where the first 2-4 units will come from matters less when attacker can basically make his own decisions how to approach MGs as opposed to choosing from the options the map provides.

Also that "your level" jab is pretty unfounded, beaten PanzerGrenA badly recently, beaten Pappy ODaniel, rekt your friend Brad long time ago as well, and 1v1 isn't even my preferred mode in coh2. Any high level coh1 player can come to coh2 and do well after shaking the dust off and learning the current meta (which frankly isn't that complex), the mechanical skill sets are very transferable between the two games.

shitpost

I said something like I'm not playing very much if any 1v1 until a better patch.

snip

Ok, but seriously. What is the point of this post? To usher in the great CoH1 revival by showing this forum the light of vaulting being overrated?

Ok, but seriously. What is the point of this post? To usher in the great CoH1 revival by showing this forum the light of vaulting being overrated?

I think it's mostly the hope of showing all of us just how good CoH1 really is by breaking all "negative" things of CoH2 down. In his desperation he now found vaulting to be overrated....

Ok, but seriously. What is the point of this post? To usher in the great CoH1 revival by showing this forum the light of vaulting being overrated?

In COH1 the maps had to be balanced so that there were enough obstacles to steer attacking infantry, but enough entrys/exits to not make MGs completely overpowered. It feels as if vaulting is just a fool proof way to not make MGs overpowered on any map, but at the expense of nerfing the shit out of smart early MG play. I have zero expectation this will be changed in COH2, but its a good lesson to learn from for future COH or DOW games. When the current system is working fine, adding in new features that shakes it up should be avoided unless it without a doubt improves gameplay in a meaningful way.

So send it to Relic?

Although given your recent posts on reddit, twitch, and coh2 this is some kind of weird jab at coh2 being the vastly inferior game to coh1. You've already made that insinuation a couple of other times in this thread.

Not sure why people are being so rude (very rarely post on the forums). I definately see your point. In coh2, often you just have to make sure you're not running into the arc of fire and then vault your way forward and take out the mg. As you say, this game already offers plenty of options to take care of an mg.

I loved the challenge of taking on a well placed mg in vcoh (to be fair, I mostly played americans), since it usually required several squads and timing --> carefully prepared flanking and good micro.

I do agree that vaulting enhances gameplay in certain ways, however, so perhaps more obstacles (as suggested in the thread) that cannot be valuted would be a solution.

So send it to Relic?

Although given your recent posts on reddit, twitch, and coh2 this is some kind of weird jab at coh2 being the vastly inferior game to coh1. You've already made that insinuation a couple of other times in this thread.

Thats a bit of a strawman, I never said vaulting makes coh2 vastly inferior to coh1. Its one of the smaller bordering moderate things I don't like about the game, others being base MGs covering nearly 100% of the base and killing base rush, units running in from off-map, snipers not shooting the man you click on, etc. The reason I bring it up is because when people say coh2 is better than coh1, they usually point to vaulting as a big reason which is very debatable. This isn't even a conclusion I came to myself, this is something I first heard Marinez say back when he was playing 2v2 with OMGPOP, and now that I can play the same maps in both games I can easily see why.

The things COH2 does right compared to vcoh is a reverse button, toggle only fire at vehicles ability, and continuing to attack the target unit after giving a move order. In coh1 every time you gave a move order your unit would auto attack something else if it had a higher target priority. That is a HUGE improvement that doesn't get much appreciation because people either forgot or didn't play coh1.

Sorry. I didn't realize ive stumbled into some kind of multi year drama between you and the community. I'll leave you to it.

on a way more important note band of brothers is an amazing series gifted to mankind from space wizards 10/10 on the intro selection

They are still strong over the course of the game, but they are weaker in early minutes since great awareness very rarely translates to completely shutting down a early game flank with more than 1 MG. Keeping track in your mind where the first 2-4 units will come from matters less when attacker can basically make his own decisions how to approach MGs as opposed to choosing from the options the map provides.

Also that "your level" jab is pretty unfounded, beaten PanzerGrenA badly recently, beaten Pappy ODaniel, rekt your friend Brad long time ago as well, and 1v1 isn't even my preferred mode in coh2. Any high level coh1 player can come to coh2 and do well after shaking the dust off and learning the current meta (which frankly isn't that complex), the mechanical skill sets are very transferable between the two games.


I said something like I'm not playing very much if any 1v1 until a better patch.

not having to charge an MG head on, but being able to flank it by actively vaulting and moving around its arc of fire, is a terrible addition to the game?
vaulting is also an option the map provides to be used or neglected.
tbh: this looks very much like a stance taken out of spite. sorry to say so

edit: and how great is it that you can change to the other side of cover without having to walk around said cover
(im looking at you walls of semoiskys graveyard)

The volume of the video sound is very low even with OS volume and YouTube volume to 100%.

Basilone pls. Vaulting is cool. It actually creates interesting situations where players need to decide whether or not they should try to soft-retreat, vault, then hard retreat, or just hard retreat (possibly taking a more treacherous path). There was a great example of this in OCF, where a player had wired a treacherous retreat path around the southern points on Kholodny Ferma Summer. Twice, a Wehr player with overextended Grens had to move, then vault a fence, then retreat to take the "short cut" home. One time, they weren't able to, and when they retreated, they ran a huge obstacle course through enemy territory. Cool stuff, enabled by the vaulting mechanic.

But really, why would you make this sad shitpost and even spend time on a video? Just bored?

+infinity. It always struck me as insane that you could wire a small portion of each stone wall just below north VP rails and metal for instance and units had to take a massive trek around all the walls just to approach an MG covering the center. Would go back and play vCOH if they improved UI a bit and did added some simple things like vaulting. Call it COH HD like AOE did and add a few features.