I don't think it's just rng. It's rng and high armour. 3 paks to the front and 2 panthers in the rear (one of them a command panther) couldn't take out 1 of 3 IS-2s. They never tried to maneuver, just sat there and tanked all the shots while focusing down my tanks. We were focusing on one IS-2 and it never went below 25% hp.
I've never seen a tiger just shrug off multiple dedicated AT shots like that while at the same time obliterating squads with its 4.0 AOE.
IS-2 Frontal Armor
9 Aug 2014, 23:37 PM
#81
Posts: 38
9 Aug 2014, 23:50 PM
#82
1 
Posts: 97
Jagd tiger is almost 300 fuel. OKW Fuel so that like over 400 fuel norm. What pisses me off is in this video The tiger cannot penetrate it for over one minute.
For every situation where a tiger never pens an IS2, there's another where the tiger constantly pens the IS2. Are you sure you're grasping the statistics at work here?
And 5 T-34s are 1500mp and 500 fuel.
10 Aug 2014, 05:24 AM
#83
Posts: 971
For every situation where a tiger never pens an IS2, there's another where the tiger constantly pens the IS2. Are you sure you're grasping the statistics at work here?
And 5 T-34s are 1500mp and 500 fuel.
Exactly. If the RNG God smiles you, then you can destroy a King Tiger even con partisans.
IS2 frontal armor is really good, but what happens in that video is just luck in each shot time and time again.
21 Aug 2014, 21:22 PM
#84
Posts: 978
That problem is sadly pretty common. A StuG, a Panzer IV, a Command Panzer IV and a Pak... and they all bounce.
From min 40:35-41:30.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=89EG_b-07Tc&list=UUyUcNdOxXcVt3o9eZKdza9w&index=2#t=40m35s
From min 40:35-41:30.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=89EG_b-07Tc&list=UUyUcNdOxXcVt3o9eZKdza9w&index=2#t=40m35s
21 Aug 2014, 22:06 PM
#85
Posts: 692
Everything there except the pak has no business engaging an IS-2 frontally.
Let's get real here, that's like me complaining a T-34 can't pen a KT.
Let's get real here, that's like me complaining a T-34 can't pen a KT.
21 Aug 2014, 22:07 PM
#86
Posts: 2693 | Subs: 1
All of the anecdotal video evidence in this thread is useless. We KNOW the actual values of the armor, and the values of accuracy and penetration of AT weapons. Videos of unlucky RNG RNG add nothing to what we already know. Balance should also not be made on videos of unlucky RNG rolls.
21 Aug 2014, 22:16 PM
#87
Posts: 978
Everything there except the pak has no business engaging an IS-2 frontally.A Tiger wouldn´t have bounced that many shots from a SU-85, Zis and T-34/85. StuGs with less range than a Su-85 and no turret should actually be able to somewhat reliably pierce through a heavy tanks armor. After all we see 85mms going through everything also.
Let's get real here, that's like me complaining a T-34 can't pen a KT.
All of the anecdotal video evidence in this thread is useless. We KNOW the actual values of the armor, and the values of accuracy and penetration of AT weapons. Videos of unlucky RNG RNG add nothing to what we already know. Balance should also not be made on videos of unlucky RNG rolls.The point was to show that it´s not just uncommon rng bad luck. I have those kind of bounces on a regular basis. Rng dependent but common, very common. And if one can park his tank unharmed in the middle of StuGs, Paks etc and pick them off without trouble, the game experience is bad.
21 Aug 2014, 22:17 PM
#88
Posts: 1701
Exactly. If the RNG God smiles you, then you can destroy a King Tiger even con partisans.
IS2 frontal armor is really good, but what happens in that video is just luck in each shot time and time again.
OFF TOPIC
Why those random spanish words in your phrases in some of your posts?
Blaue Division - The best corp
BPX - Black Phoenix, Clan leader.
BPX - Black Phoenix, Clan leader.
21 Aug 2014, 22:23 PM
#89
Posts: 262
The plural of anecdote isn't data.
21 Aug 2014, 22:29 PM
#90
Posts: 692
A Tiger wouldn´t have bounced that many shots from a SU-85, Zis and T-34/85. StuGs with less range than a Su-85 and no turret should actually be able to somewhat reliably pierce through a heavy tanks armor. After all we see 85mms going through everything also.
Your comparisons are bad.
Su-85 is not on par with a Stug
T-34/85 is not on par with a P4, let alone a command P4
Stug is a multirole vehicle now for some reason, so it trades pen for good AI ability. So no, it should not reliably pen an IS-2 front.
Paks, Panthers and Tigers counter the IS-2, not mid-game anti-infantry tanks.
21 Aug 2014, 22:36 PM
#91
Posts: 950 | Subs: 1
Everything there except the pak has no business engaging an IS-2 frontally.
Paks, Panthers and Tigers counter the IS-2, not mid-game anti-infantry tanks.
did you not see two tigers there?
All of the anecdotal video evidence in this thread is useless. We KNOW the actual values of the armor, and the values of accuracy and penetration of AT weapons. Videos of unlucky RNG RNG add nothing to what we already know. Balance should also not be made on videos of unlucky RNG rolls.
its really not a video of RNG when tiger has less than 50% chance to pen at max range
21 Aug 2014, 22:42 PM
#92
Posts: 665
A Tiger wouldn´t have bounced that many shots from a SU-85, Zis and T-34/85. StuGs with less range than a Su-85 and no turret should actually be able to somewhat reliably pierce through a heavy tanks armor. After all we see 85mms going through everything also.
Tiger does bounce T-34/85 shots pretty often in my experience, and SU-85s aren't the equivalent of StuGs. It's true that PaKs can have a bit of a hard time however.
I do think 375 armor is a bit much, but then again the Tiger still has superior survivability via Blitz, and most doctrines that have it also pack smoke. So it's not like like the IS-2 is really OP.
21 Aug 2014, 23:56 PM
#93
Posts: 950 | Subs: 1
I do think 375 armor is a bit much, but then again the Tiger still has superior survivability via Blitz, and most doctrines that have it also pack smoke. So it's not like like the IS-2 is really OP.
theres only one commander with smoke and tigers. spearhead
22 Aug 2014, 00:13 AM
#94
Posts: 971
The thing that came to my head when I watched that video was that this game needs urgently side armor.
I agree that only the pak has something to do in that engagement, but the PzIV on the left did some good side shots and they all got registered as frontal hits.
I think that the current system makes flanking too hard.
Btw, I don't understand why IS2 can't be better than Tiger. Must all axis tanks be better than the allied ones?
@Kronosaur0s
Maybe because I'm spanish, and sometimes I confuse words.
I agree that only the pak has something to do in that engagement, but the PzIV on the left did some good side shots and they all got registered as frontal hits.
I think that the current system makes flanking too hard.
Btw, I don't understand why IS2 can't be better than Tiger. Must all axis tanks be better than the allied ones?
@Kronosaur0s
Maybe because I'm spanish, and sometimes I confuse words.
22 Aug 2014, 00:43 AM
#95
Posts: 1701
They should remake stugs G to ANTITANK and only ANTITANK for gods sake, I dont even know why they changed it, no one was calling for this multirole change.
We, spanish users will understand you everytime you post them, butguiris other users may not
The thing that came to my head when I watched that video was that this game needs urgently side armor.
@Kronosaur0s
Maybe because I'm spanish, and sometimes I confuse words.
We, spanish users will understand you everytime you post them, but
Blaue Division - The best corp
BPX - Black Phoenix, Clan leader.
BPX - Black Phoenix, Clan leader.
22 Aug 2014, 01:19 AM
#96
Posts: 37
In teamgames the is 2 is a monster but you can still defeat it, but in 1v1 it is so hard to kill esp. when the 2nd is 2 hits the field you can start steamrolling through at.
22 Aug 2014, 01:19 AM
#97
Posts: 952
They should remake stugs G to ANTITANK and only ANTITANK for gods sake, I dont even know why they changed it, no one was calling for this multirole change.
For what it's worth, the Stug was, historically, a cheap multirole vehicle not a dedicated tank destroyer- hence the sturmgeschutz designation instead of jagdpanzer. I quite like it as it is, fair against all targets instead of just another SU85/Jagd4 clone- it's quite unique, and the same can't be said of most vehicles in the game.
22 Aug 2014, 06:06 AM
#98
Posts: 1705
In teamgames once u have 2 its incredible..they are too hard to kill and slaughter the at guns..inf.For ostheer its worse.OKW at least has KT.
22 Aug 2014, 06:39 AM
#99
Posts: 467
The thing that came to my head when I watched that video was that this game needs urgently side armor.
I agree that only the pak has something to do in that engagement, but the PzIV on the left did some good side shots and they all got registered as frontal hits.
I think that the current system makes flanking too hard.
Btw, I don't understand why IS2 can't be better than Tiger. Must all axis tanks be better than the allied ones?
@Kronosaur0s
Maybe because I'm spanish, and sometimes I confuse words.
No but why cost the same then?
22 Aug 2014, 14:30 PM
#100
Posts: 971
No but why cost the same then?
Lots of units have equal costs but performs differently, and generally one is considered better than the other, like soviet and ost mortars or hmgs.
Maybe IS2 has better raw power, but probably Tiger has better mobility and more synergy with non-doctrinal units.
I prefer a Tiger + 2 paks than an IS2 + 2 ZiS for example.
Raw power isn't everything in this game. How many Tiger vs IS2 fights have you had without any other unit taking part in it? Just a unit with a panzerschreck could break that balance.
I think the balance IS2/Tiger is very fair, considering the units supporting them lategame when they appear. I don't care if hypothetically a lone IS2 would win a lone Tiger surviving with a 5% hp, because usually that doesn't happen in my games.
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