Big Balance Thread.

So after playing the game nearly non-stop since WF launched. These are the balance conclusions ive drawn...

Soviets:

Balance:

ISU-152 - still needs a nerf in how effective its weapon is.... the previous AOE nerf in the last patch hasnt really effected this things ability to kill squads accurately at all... Either nerf its AI or its AT.... in a game like this no unit should hard counter everything like this unit does.

120mm mortar - Cost reduced from 400mp to 300mp to reflect its battlefield impact.

-T70 cost reduction from 70 Fuel to 50. This unit is under performing when compared to other light armor from all other factions. Easily counterable at start game with OKW anti-tank rocket launcher.

SU85 front armor increase and penetration increase (to counter the heavier stuff)

T34/85 - Double call in needs price putting to 800MP and 280fuel. and a slight hp decrease.

Maxim - needs a slightly slower setup time (so you can flank it) and needs to have a little less suppression as it is currently. This unit is still easily used as an LMG team.

Fixes: None


Wehrmacht:

Balance:

Pgrens - need their armor back. The recent 15% reduced chance of been hit was ok, but still didnt really change much. These units still underperform for their cost.

Sniper - needs 1.5 armor. now more than ever since USF infantry is way more accurate and usually has some sort of LMG.

Blitz -(50% speed bonus now) decreases accuracy by 50% when activated and 10% bonus to incoming damage. This should not be a get out a jail free card.

P4 - needs a slight HP increase to match the T34/85. (especially when these units cost the same yet the T34/85 totally overpowers the P4).

S mines - Needs signposts removing. These are currently the only faction with useless AI mines unless the enemy player is blind.

HMG42 - Needs faster suppression.

FHT - needs moving back to T2 not T3. (yknow since the Americans can get fighting positions and quadcannon M5's at T2).

Fixes:
Rifle nade needs to be refunded ammo when not fired or cancled (like the molotov is) currently it costs you the ammo, costs you the cooldown and doesn't fire. Sometimes this happens without it even been canceled.


OKW:

Balance:

Kubel - Wagon needs either a price decrease to 180mp or a HP and armor increase. Currently this unit isnt useless.... however its a HUGE liability and usually dies before paying even half its cost back to light arms fire or a single bazooka shot. 240mp is just too much to lose in 1 shot or 1 burst of fire.

Volks Grenadiers - Need to be slightly better, suggested improvement would be an LMG upgrade for 60 ammo. OR give them the same MP40 upgrade from the first game.

Rakentenwerfer - too inaccurate.

Flackhalftrack - Needs a faster setup time (yknow since the USF one comes at the same time, doesn't have a setup time and can destroy the german flacktrack twice over in a duel). Thats not even including the germans flacktrack setup time.

Puma - too expensive for how effective it is.... currently the puma costs 70 fuel (that's 100 normal fuel since this is OKW) and it really just doesn't perform as a 100 fuel unit when you compare it to the versatility of the T34/76 and the Sherman. It works as a good sniper, but is too easily countered for its cost.

Jagdpanzer4 - This really needs replacing with an assault gun.... but as it stands, it needs an AP buff.... since it struggles to penetrate lots of front shots... when this units only dedicated task is killing tanks (and it is utterly useless vs anything else) then it should at least fulfill its roll effectively. Should just copy and paste the stats of the SU85 over.

Sturmofficer - needs vet ranks

Fixes:
Canceling construction of a fwd HQ - should refund the resources (it will still stall players teching by 3 mins) but i dont think they should be punished so heavily for having a building HQ destroyed before it is completed.

Raketenwerfer crew is prone to getting stuck on terrain.

Medium tank skins does not apply to the panther, (which is their med tank image) yet it does apply to the Sturmtiger (which is obviously a heavy tank).



United States Forces:

Balance:

Rear echalon suppress ability needs a price increase to 40 or a massive potency nerf. Currently this is a force retreat for only 20 ammo. Either factor its potency into its range (e.g close rank 100% effective, Med range 50% effective, long range 25% effective) or put it to 40 ammo to stop this dumb guaranteed map control unit.

Anti-air halftrack - Needs a dps reduction. This thing can blow up its OKW counterpart before it has even setup. It should be a close fight, not a total steamroll.

Officer squads - Should not come with heavy weapons... Not only does the USF get a free squad when teching (costing 200mp and 50/60/90 fuel) but they also get a free squad.... the captian arrives with 120ammo worth of bazookas and the LT arrives with a 60ammo BAR. This should not be the case... it carries the USF from a decent rifle spam (which i do think is balanced) to totally overwhelming the germans forces with heavy weapon teams just by teching... This forces the OKW to go Luftwaffer tactics nearly every game in 1v1's since they have no decent infantry capable of dealing with this heavy weapon armed horde of Americans until Obesoldarten. The MG36 and the Falshims are just too important as it stands.

Sherman 105 dozer... needs slightly weaker AT, something that can 1 shot squads so often shouldn't be so effective vs tanks.... thats what the M10 is for.

Fixes: Rapid fire does not apply to bazookas.




Thanks for reading, feel free to comment constructively. I will add to these lists if anyone throws up any decent arguments about other changes.

Cheers.

Not a nerf on Obersoldaten? really?
I think Obersoldaten (nor any unit) should not be as effective long range as it is right now.

Ok Ok... its expensive
Ok Ok.. 50 mp to reinforce and long reinf time.

But setting them into a green cover you need 3 squads to assault it, and by the time you reach the distance to launch a grenade, you had to retreat 2 squads because of damage received.

Your summary may be: Allies: Nerf Nerf Nerf. Axis: Buff Buff Buff

I feel like this is a good start. Everyone whining about obersoldaten really needs to stop running inf into the best AI unit in the game. its like complaining that rushing su-85s into a field of paks should be viable.

Not a nerf on Obersoldaten? really?
I think Obersoldaten (nor any unit) should not be as effective long range as it is right now.

Ok Ok... its expensive
Ok Ok.. 50 mp to reinforce and long reinf time.

But setting them into a green cover you need 3 squads to assault it, and by the time you reach the distance to launch a grenade, you had to retreat 2 squads because of damage received.

Your summary may be: Allies: Nerf Nerf Nerf. Axis: Buff Buff Buff

Id be more than happy to see a nerf to Obersoldaten if volks were more potent/effective at fighting an american rifleman spam.

Currently... Falshims and Obersoldaten are then only thing gonna save you from 5 rifle squads + the 2 free officer squads at the 10 min marker.

I feel like this is a good start. Everyone whining about obersoldaten really needs to stop running inf into the best AI unit in the game. its like complaining that rushing su-85s into a field of paks should be viable.

I understand but even if it's the best infantry ingame, it should be countered by another infantry/tactic (not only with tanks). At least they could be stronger Long/mid range but have a weak short range so if you get close enough you could have a chance. Atm only soviet sniper can deal with it, USA have no infantry counters.

Remember that Knight cross holders were weak against fire and long range weapons. Every unit should have a counter imo.

Id be more than happy to see a nerf to Obersoldaten if volks were more potent/effective at fighting an american rifleman spam.

Currently... Falshims and Obersoldaten are then only thing gonna save you from 5 rifle squads + the 2 free officer squads at the 10 min marker.

+1

tl;dr
nerf allies
buff axis

Really weak suggestions coming from a completely axis point of view.

Sure, in addition to all that:

Soviets:

-SU-85 armor increase from 140 to 180. Penetration increase from 190 to 200. Hold fire makes a return. This unit is under performing now due to the changes in Heavy Armor and new units that WFA has brought to the game.

-T70 cost reduction from 70 Fuel to 50. This unit is under performing when compared to other light armor from all other factions. Easily counterable at start game with OKW anti-tank rocket launcher.

- 120MM Mortar cost reduction from 400 MP to 300 MP. This unit has been under performing since the series of nerfs and is too expensive.

- Shocktroops returned to 1 CP. This change is required due to OKW getting PGren Lites at 0 CP.

OKW:

- Fallschirmjager can no longer spawn in buildings without line of sight. This is to reflect their in-game performance. Lower risk than paratroopers as of current.

- Obersoldaten re-enforce cost increased to 70 MP. This is to reflect their in-game performance (better than a Soviet sniper which is 75 to re-enforce).

Wehrmacht:

- Blitz (50% speed bonus now) decreases accuracy by 50% when activated and 10% bonus to incoming damage. This should not be a get out a jail free card.

@Corsin
As much as I like your suggestions, just... .
I see you suggested nothing but nerfs to allied and buffs to axis. I am not the one to say you are totally wrong, but I don't think you will be taken to seriously.
There are many changes you suggested that I wouldn't like to see.
American AA nerf... ok, but others... no.
And no fixes at americans? How about voley fire bazooka bug removed?
OKW - I see no buffs needed right now.

thx for the suggestions ill update it

Sure, in addition to all that:


- Shocktroops returned to 1 CP. This change is required due to OKW getting PGren Lites at 0 CP.

Look, one guy who misses the trololol early game as a soviet.

OKW:

- Fallschirmjager can no longer spawn in buildings without line of sight. This is to reflect their in-game performance. Lower risk than paratroopers as of current.

Ok, then partisans should also not be able to spawn from buildings.

- Obersoldaten re-enforce cost increased to 70 MP. This is to reflect their in-game performance (better than a Soviet sniper which is 75 to re-enforce).

Keep dreaming. They are very expensive as they are now, their price and arrival time in the game justify their performance.

Sure, in addition to all that:

Soviets:

-SU-85 armor increase from 140 to 180. Penetration increase from 190 to 200. Hold fire makes a return. This unit is under performing now due to the changes in Heavy Armor and new units that WFA has brought to the game.

Good idea, added.

-T70 cost reduction from 70 Fuel to 50. This unit is under performing when compared to other light armor from all other factions. Easily counterable at start game with OKW anti-tank rocket launcher.

Agreed, added.

- 120MM Mortar cost reduction from 400 MP to 300 MP. This unit has been under performing since the series of nerfs and is too expensive.

Agreed again, added.

- Shocktroops returned to 1 CP. This change is required due to OKW getting PGren Lites at 0 CP.

Disagree, Sturm pio's are strong but are very squshy. rifle men drop them in the open fairly easily. Also you have to concider what effect this would have vs the wehrmacht, which dont really have anything at T1 to answer this with.

OKW:

- Fallschirmjager can no longer spawn in buildings without line of sight. This is to reflect their in-game performance. Lower risk than paratroopers as of current.

Para's are 6 men squads and can also drop anywhere. + can be upgraded with LMG's and use Satchels ect.

- Obersoldaten re-enforce cost increased to 70 MP. This is to reflect their in-game performance (better than a Soviet sniper which is 75 to re-enforce).

These guys just need an accuracy nerf at long range, but not too much, since volks are currently useless. these are the only decent non-doctrinal infantry.

Wehrmacht:

- Blitz (50% speed bonus now) decreases accuracy by 50% when activated and 10% bonus to incoming damage. This should not be a get out a jail free card.

agreed, not sure about the 10% bonus damage. but the accuracy makes sense only while they move.

Look, one guy who misses the trololol early game as a soviet.

Ok, then partisans should also not be able to spawn from buildings.

Keep dreaming. They are very expensive as they are now, their price and arrival time in the game justify their performance.

Things change. Pgren Lites out perform conscripts at all ranges. Back when the Shock troops were 1 CP the argument was "We have no counter". Now, the Soviets have no counter expect for Maxim's. However, it would appear that the OP wants the set up time increased which would reduce our only counter. By bringing back 1CP Shocks PGren Lites would not require an adjustment.

Partisans are not elite infantry. They hold no late game value except for harassment. Fallschirmjager are elite infantry and stand toe to toe with any late game Soviet infantry, Shock troops included.

Obersoldaten are better than Soviet Snipers and KV8's at anti-infantry ability. Their reinforce price needs to go up to represent their in game performance.

I should mention, over all I think the small weapons profiles need to be updated so every group has a weakness range. This crap of being good from every range reminds me of the LMG42 over performance that took 2 patches to adjust properly. This would help the dynamics of infantry combat in general

How are officers FREE???. It costs 200 mp 50 fuel for a LT,and 200 something manpower 80 for a captain. I dont understand. They are cheaper if you lose them the first time and buy them again but they are not FREE.. OR OP.

Obersoldaten are better than Soviet Snipers and KV8's at anti-infantry ability. Their reinforce price needs to go up to represent their in game performance.

They are not better than a kv8 man... I mean seriously? if you don't retreat a squad with 4 seconds or less and a kv8 is on them they will get insta wiped.

@Cookiezncreem What they mean is that it's a free unit when you tech up. No other faction gets that.

sea peasant the same thing could be said about the Obersoldaten. If you don't get your infantry out in 4 seconds, they are very dead. The days of the insta wiped squads via Flames is long gone. It requires AT LEAST 2 bursts of flames now PLUS the unit has been made weaker and slower.

They are not better than a kv8 man... I mean seriously? if you don't retreat a squad with 4 seconds or less and a kv8 is on them they will get insta wiped.

Obersoldaten are the kv8 of infantry, everything just melts.

They are not better than a kv8 man... I mean seriously? if you don't retreat a squad with 4 seconds or less and a kv8 is on them they will get insta wiped.

You haven't faced vet3 infrared obers yet, right?