HOLY POTATOES !!! patch 3/25

The damage of clown cars all light vehicles is now exactly zero. And I have to sacrifice even more field presence for crap! Relic in the drivers seat again.

I played 5 games after the patch and my AC got more than 20 kills in every single one. M3 sucks in it's current form, yes. But the german light vehicles are extremely strong.

I like some of the changes, game certainly feels more tactical. Too early to call anything definitively on balance yet imo.

Snipers feel rather clunky/clumsy, I think its intended, but they aren't a pleasure to micro anymore ^^. Of course, counter snipes now will be harder, but they'll die very fast if ever caught out to anything.

As soviets i've had some joy going with the old 3 cons, sniper, scout car for a flamer engineer followed by Guards and another sniper, more guards or the call in mortar and then t4. Used to be a pretty common build a good while ago now.

As Germans, lots of strats i'm playing with. Few Pio squads into MG42's and a sniper followed by scout car(s) on open maps.. Gren spam, and using the munitions transfer ability to get lots of LMGS and Rifle nades on closed one's looks promising.

Cause Pio spam + SC or old cheesy elite Vet PGs spam doesnt revolve around running around the map killing infantry...


I dont know if others feels the same, but it seems as Soviets there has been a huge reset. What you mostly knew about the early game, does not longer apply and new BO-strats-usage of units will need to arise. This doesn´t apply in general to German, which seems that they have a smoother transition on this patch.

I agree. I thought it was going to be the other way around with the lack of German infantry body armor. But with the weapon profiles and exponential growth of German DPS it has had quite the effect. As well as the multitude of Superior assault troops on the German side. Very Very strange to see a Pgren run out of cover at a Shock who is out of cover and see the Pgren Maul the Shock....

What you mostly knew about the early game, does not longer apply and new BO-strats-usage of units will need to arise.

Like 3 sniper opening instead of 2.

at this rate the game will have to put an option of Germans against Germans

LOL!

Civil War expansion? LoL

20 pages of bullshit. Nothing concrete. Why are you guys still writing anyway?

If you culd beat Knights Cross or PE with Rifles in vCoH, this wont be a problem.

That is assuming soviets have a unit that is of similar power of rifles. Hint for you: they do not have one.
Unless you want to give ppsh cons ability to suppress for 20muni that BARs had.

Like 3 sniper opening instead of 2.

GL against Pio spam into 222

It'd be a fun patch, except that Soviets can't compete early, and can't compete late. Most people considered the con superiority and map control justified given how fast PzIVs and Ostwinds could roll out, and just forget about the Panther and the PwnUwurfer.

Oh he went shocks? They're standing up to LMG grens? Oh, ok, Tiger doctrine. Even better, Elite Troops.

Did you think about this Peter? Every time I need 2 or more cons and/or maxim to force away 1 LMG gren, that's one other territory he's capping that's not under my control. So if it was the intention to squeeze Soviets onto a tiny corner of the map and wait for call-in tanks, mission accomplished.

Grens should probably be 260 MP at least if the weapons profiles are going to be maintained. If one could always get the drop on an LMG/G43 gren with a PPSH squad or flank and throw a Molotov, it'd be fine. In theory it looks good. In reality it's almost impossible to ever accomplish. Relic's perception of Ostheer players seems to be that they stand around in static positions all game.

I agree with the general sentiment that the russians need some help, but lets try to keep this thread concrete and constructive. All the crying about how your conscript spam isn't working isn't going to get us any closer to finding ways for the soviets to compete, and it certainly isn't constructive enough feedback for relic to work with. If you guys want quick change, start making posts that are actually constructive, rather than just raging and posting a "clever"(irrelevant) meme picture about the current state of the game. These forums are almost unreadable in the 1-2 days following a major patch. If I were working for Relic I wouldn't even bother browsing these forums until at least a week later when everyones blood has stopped boiling and are thinking rationally again.

That is assuming soviets have a unit that is of similar power of rifles. Hint for you: they do not have one.
Unless you want to give ppsh cons ability to suppress for 20muni that BARs had.

Penals and Guards DO have that similar power of rifles. You just admitted you didn't play and talk shit here.

Porygon thats just so much bullshit you are spitting out of your mouth.

It'd be a fun patch, except that Soviets can't compete early, and can't compete late. Most people considered the con superiority and map control justified given how fast PzIVs and Ostwinds could roll out, and just forget about the Panther and the PwnUwurfer.

Oh he went shocks? They're standing up to LMG grens? Oh, ok, Tiger doctrine. Even better, Elite Troops.

Did you think about this Peter? Every time I need 2 or more cons and/or maxim to force away 1 LMG gren, that's one other territory he's capping that's not under my control. So if it was the intention to squeeze Soviets onto a tiny corner of the map and wait for call-in tanks, mission accomplished.

Grens should probably be 260 MP at least if the weapons profiles are going to be maintained. If one could always get the drop on an LMG/G43 gren with a PPSH squad or flank and throw a Molotov, it'd be fine. In theory it looks good. In reality it's almost impossible to ever accomplish. Relic's perception of Ostheer players seems to be that they stand around in static positions all game.

+1

Every time I need 2 or more cons and/or maxim to force away 1 LMG gren, that's one other territory he's capping that's not under my control.

ACK. Ostheer continues to be most cost effective in all stages of the game. This isn't SC2 and Conscripts aren't Zerglings.

Porygon thats just so much bullshit you are spitting out of your mouth.

Thanks

All campaign, ToW and skirmish AI needs to be changed. Russian standard infantry costs relatively similar to german standard infantry, and is much more cost effective. A price decrease in one, or an increase in the other is a possible change, but id like you all to think about this: The russian army consisted of many more (untrained) soldiers than the german army. Therefore, in organized battles, the russians fielded many, many infantry regiments than the germans. The russian casualties, however, were enormous compared to german ones, yet sometimes the soviets won, and that is how the soviets won the war. They had a helluva lot more armed troops, despite many of them being pressed untrained conscripts. I do not think 6 man squads are cutting it with this new change the patch brought. The russians need to be able to field more squads to keep up with their losses instead of fielding relatively the same amount of squads, but losing because the germans are more effective. Conscript price needs to go down. Germans are quality. Soviets are quantity. So far, russian quantity is not enough to the improved german quality.

The russians need spam, because the russians are spam. They are short range, on average lower damage, and in the long run, less durable than the germans. Russians have to be aggressive and be on the germans. The germans however, are powerful enough to repel their numbers every time. I can guarantee russian bleeding as russian charges are stopped to a halt with no retreating survivors, and no gain acheived. The germans lost because there were so many russians everywhere, they couldnt stop them all. It is the best way to compensate, with realism. A game has to have some in order to be successful.

I agree with the general sentiment that the russians need some help, but lets try to keep this thread concrete and constructive. All the crying about how your conscript spam isn't working isn't going to get us any closer to finding ways for the soviets to compete, and it certainly isn't constructive enough feedback for relic to work with. If you guys want quick change, start making posts that are actually constructive, rather than just raging and posting a "clever"(irrelevant) meme picture about the current state of the game. These forums are almost unreadable in the 1-2 days following a major patch. If I were working for Relic I wouldn't even bother browsing these forums until at least a week later when everyones blood has stopped boiling and are thinking rationally again.

It's the other way around, people are venting because relic is incompetent.

It'd be a fun patch, except that Soviets can't compete early, and can't compete late. Most people considered the con superiority and map control justified given how fast PzIVs and Ostwinds could roll out, and just forget about the Panther and the PwnUwurfer.

Oh he went shocks? They're standing up to LMG grens? Oh, ok, Tiger doctrine. Even better, Elite Troops.

Did you think about this Peter? Every time I need 2 or more cons and/or maxim to force away 1 LMG gren, that's one other territory he's capping that's not under my control. So if it was the intention to squeeze Soviets onto a tiny corner of the map and wait for call-in tanks, mission accomplished.

Grens should probably be 260 MP at least if the weapons profiles are going to be maintained. If one could always get the drop on an LMG/G43 gren with a PPSH squad or flank and throw a Molotov, it'd be fine. In theory it looks good. In reality it's almost impossible to ever accomplish. Relic's perception of Ostheer players seems to be that they stand around in static positions all game.

I very much agree with this sentiment. The CoH was always, in terms of unit quality/variety, largely rigged in the Germans favor - therefore there was no sign of balance in anything bigger than 2v2 or annihilation games. The balance of this game was built around timing - allies are supposed to be strong and aggressive early, and Whehr can sit on their fuel and stall into the lategame where it has all the power.

After this patch Whehr has fully preserved their lategame power and arguably had their midgame made somewhat easier (the 222, AT nades nerf). The soviets, on the other hand, seem to have lost a large part (at least) of the early-game edge crucial in the meta-game. Also, midgame seems non-existant for Soviets. The closest thing to m8 - the t-70 - comes waaaay too late, and m3 is just garbage compared to both the 221/222 and the HT.

I agree with the general sentiment that the russians need some help, but lets try to keep this thread concrete and constructive. All the crying about how your conscript spam isn't working isn't going to get us any closer to finding ways for the soviets to compete, and it certainly isn't constructive enough feedback for relic to work with. If you guys want quick change, start making posts that are actually constructive, rather than just raging and posting a "clever"(irrelevant) meme picture about the current state of the game. These forums are almost unreadable in the 1-2 days following a major patch. If I were working for Relic I wouldn't even bother browsing these forums until at least a week later when everyones blood has stopped boiling and are thinking rationally again.

First sensible post in ages in this thread.

I understand there is frustration, some of it due to the fact you have to readapt and play diffrently. Overall I think the changes are good and interesting. A lot of players seem to not use smoke, it is a great way to close the distance and get units in close. You can even use it as a decoy to force the opponent to move or reconsider his strong positions. I still have to relearn how to play some maps, but honestly I think it's more fun to learn than just stick to the old meta that I was thinking got a bit stale anyways.

I played several games yesterday as Soviets also and they definitely were quite horrible.

Like it has been said several times in this thread, the problem is early game. There's just no way of keeping map control (especially fuel/muni) at good level. Pioneers are so cheap and effective that suddenly Ostheer is doing the harassment. Every time we managed to get our fuel we ran into trouble with some other squads at our cut-off that required (as Peter also said) at least two squads. When moving into that direction Pioneers or some other squad went to get our fuel and there's no way to get it back with engies or any other a bit hurt squad.

Last game we played was just horrible. I think the built order was (on my side at least) 2 grens with that one Pioneer. They managed to hold back our troops enough that there was a few bunkers built at very crucial places. At the time that I had Penals ready to flank and destroy the bunkers they were coming with VET 3 222 Scout Cars (yes, elite troops on top of that). Now that's quite tricky to counter. Again because the fuel income was low as well as muni so no mines or fuel so not even a thought of building T3.

I have to say that last game was bad play from us because we already had lost few games before but I just didn't thought a way to counter that.