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russian armor

Please implement vehicle abandons.

14 Sep 2021, 12:10 PM
#1
avatar of donofsandiego

Posts: 1366

I understand it's hated by tournament players for being able to change the outcome of a match, but that's exactly what makes it fun.

Please at least code it in singleplayer so that modders can add it back in a tuning pack or something. Many thanks.
15 Sep 2021, 19:59 PM
#2
avatar of mr.matrix300

Posts: 518

I still think that it should be added to multiplayer. Simply not in the same way it is in CoH2.

Make it trigger under certain circumstances but then make it trigger 100% of the time and also give the captured tank slightly worse stats and maybe also make it cost like 10 or 20 fuel (+ammo?) to "refuel" the tank
15 Sep 2021, 20:06 PM
#3
avatar of donofsandiego

Posts: 1366

I still think that it should be added to multiplayer. Simply not in the same way it is in CoH2.

Make it trigger under certain circumstances but then make it trigger 100% of the time and also give the captured tank slightly worse stats and maybe also make it cost like 10 or 20 fuel (+ammo?) to "refuel" the tank


I think the consistency idea is good, as well as the "refuel" idea (for some reason I thought I remembered this being a thing in CoH1, even though there were no vehicle abandons then. Must be going crazy.)

I disagree with the having lower stats part, but I like the spirit. I think it would make sense for the crew to have trouble in the vehicle, because they're not familiar with it.

What about if it started out with "negative" veterancy? Like the crew has to get familiar with the vehicle first so maybe it has a slower reload and worse accuracy until it's gotten a tank kill or two under its belt?
15 Sep 2021, 20:47 PM
#4
avatar of donofsandiego

Posts: 1366

Make it trigger under certain circumstances but then make it trigger 100% of the time...


Actually, after thinking about this a little bit longer, I don't like this idea so much. The abandon mechanic is fun to me *because* it happens out of nowhere and it's not predictable.

When it happens it's like everyone collectively is working to stop it/ repair because they weren't prepared for it.

I've had the most fun when I've got to drop an offensive just to try to coordinate with my teammates to set up security while we repair the tank.

I have maybe some other ideas about it to make it more of a minigame or something that is less punishing for dives.

1.) One faction should not be better at recovering abandoned vehicles any more than the other (USF crit repair lol) for fairness reasons.
2.) Troops cannot get inside until it's fully repaired and there can only be so many engineers working on the tank at one time. The idea being that there's a consistent time for repairing the tank and if someone dives into enemy territory they aren't f*cked just because there are a shitton of engineers there. Also it can lead to battles around the tank to retake it and the enemy can't just hop inside to deny the enemy a chance to retake.

EDIT: Also, it would mean that you now have options to halt the repairs or slow them down, as you could shoot the tank to get the health down with AT guns or another tank and force the enemy to attack or else not be able to recover the tank.

EDIT2: Though maybe this would be kind of a snowball with the more numerically superior team being able to force the weaker team off the team and lead to snowballing. But then again it would make it a risk/reward choice, either you risk putting time into repairing the tank (possibly putting yourself into a bad situation if they can push you off it and take over the repairs) and be rewarded with a cheap tank OR you take the safe option and finish off the tank.

I think it could make abandons more of an interesting mechanic and less of a bullshit RNG roll that fucks someone over for bad luck.

16 Sep 2021, 04:20 AM
#5
avatar of Gbpirate
Senior Editor Badge

Posts: 1153 | Subs: 1

I think vehicle abandons are fine in multiplayer and custom games... but so long as there is a separate competitive ranked mode if/when they have things like a temporary season or ladder
16 Sep 2021, 06:03 AM
#6
avatar of Crecer13

Posts: 2184 | Subs: 2

Let's be honest. I once read an article that somewhere 10% of the people in the game are involved in tournaments, etc. I don't want to offend anyone, but about 10% of people should not interfere with the fun of the rest. Abandoned vehicle are fun and interesting mechanics. I am absolutely not opposed if this mechanic is removed for the tournament. But leave is as a regular player who has fun.
16 Sep 2021, 08:02 AM
#7
avatar of Spanky
Senior Strategist Badge

Posts: 1820 | Subs: 2

You don't want a this much RNG in a ranked game. I find its fine when you have it as an option for skirmish games for more fun.
16 Sep 2021, 11:54 AM
#8
avatar of donofsandiego

Posts: 1366

jump backJump back to quoted post16 Sep 2021, 08:02 AMSpanky
You don't want a this much RNG in a ranked game. I find its fine when you have it as an option for skirmish games for more fun.


I'm actually perfectly fine with the way it is in gameplay. Tournament players disable random main gun crits with tuning packs for RNG reasons. Don't see why abandons can't just stay the same way.

Also could just just have a "competitive" ruleset and a "casual" ruleset, with different queues.

It's not splitting they playerbase because most of the casual play happens in 4v4, and nobody playing 4s really wants to get matched up with a sweaty tournament arranged team anyways.
Pip
16 Sep 2021, 12:02 PM
#9
avatar of Pip

Posts: 1594

Random abandons/MGC should not be in automatch. Feel free to have them in custom games, but matchmaking (Which matches based on performance) has absolutely 0 reason to have this.
16 Sep 2021, 12:04 PM
#10
avatar of donofsandiego

Posts: 1366

jump backJump back to quoted post16 Sep 2021, 12:02 PMPip
Random abandons/MGC should not be in automatch. Feel free to have them in custom games, but matchmaking (Which matches based on performance) has absolutely 0 reason to have this.


I understand you feel this way about high level ladder matches but I assure you none of the plebians like me and the other 80% of the playerbase despise it nearly as much.

Competitive vs casual automatch. Think it would be a good fit.
Pip
16 Sep 2021, 12:07 PM
#11
avatar of Pip

Posts: 1594



I understand you feel this way about high level ladder matches but I assure you none of the plebians like me and the other 80% of the playerbase despise it nearly as much.

Competitive vs casual automatch. Think it would be a good fit.


If there's the playerbase to support two separate queues, sure.
16 Sep 2021, 13:49 PM
#12
avatar of donofsandiego

Posts: 1366

jump backJump back to quoted post16 Sep 2021, 12:07 PMPip


If there's the playerbase to support two separate queues, sure.


I don't think it will end up being much of a split in 1v1s and 4v4s. Maybe for 2s and 3s though.
19 Sep 2021, 16:47 PM
#13
avatar of mrgame2

Posts: 1794

jump backJump back to quoted post16 Sep 2021, 12:02 PMPip
Random abandons/MGC should not be in automatch. Feel free to have them in custom games, but matchmaking (Which matches based on performance) has absolutely 0 reason to have this.


worst decision relic can make and sure to piss many off.

custom game = coldtech = zero balancing = impossible to find a random game.
Pip
19 Sep 2021, 17:09 PM
#14
avatar of Pip

Posts: 1594

jump backJump back to quoted post19 Sep 2021, 16:47 PMmrgame2


worst decision relic can make and sure to piss many off.

custom game = coldtech = zero balancing = impossible to find a random game.


You overestimate the number of people who would be upset if random abandons were not in automatch. This would in no way be the "worst decision" relic could make.
19 Sep 2021, 17:26 PM
#15
avatar of mrgame2

Posts: 1794

jump backJump back to quoted post19 Sep 2021, 17:09 PMPip


You overestimate the number of people who would be upset if random abandons were not in automatch. This would in no way be the "worst decision" relic could make.


in relic official coh3 forums, the majority wants abandoned back.

not random abandoned at current state. but abandoned vehicles with perhaps more conditions to re-use them, such as using fuel to repair and such.

but abandoned vehicle mechanics are being campaign for a return, and in automatch.

thats said, i am more in favour of abandoned being triggered by RNG instead of bunch of conditions.
will prefer the aftermath of abandoned, the recrewing and repairing portion have more conditions/resources to fulfil before you can deploy it.

im not comfortable with conditions to trigger abandons because it may lead players to play for abandons.

Pip
19 Sep 2021, 19:05 PM
#16
avatar of Pip

Posts: 1594

jump backJump back to quoted post19 Sep 2021, 17:26 PMmrgame2


in relic official coh3 forums, the majority wants abandoned back.



That does not represent a particularly meaningful amount of players, and I doubt it is a "majority", merely a very loud minority.

jump backJump back to quoted post19 Sep 2021, 17:26 PMmrgame2

im not comfortable with conditions to trigger abandons because it may lead players to play for abandons.


Lol.
19 Sep 2021, 19:09 PM
#17
avatar of Klement Pikhtura

Posts: 772

You need to understand how brutal is a possibility of losing a tank and giving it away to the enemy, especially in 1v1, when you can't sit around on your ass behind HMGs and AT guns, while your allies doing all the work. Sometimes single piece of armor over your enemy can be deciding factor in a match.
So either implement it in 4v4 and 3v3s only, or drop the feature all together. Same with maingun crits.
Pip
19 Sep 2021, 19:13 PM
#18
avatar of Pip

Posts: 1594

You need to understand how brutal is a possibility of losing a tank and giving it away to the enemy, especially in 1v1, when you can't sit around on your ass behind HMGs and AT guns, while your allies doing all the work. Sometimes single piece of armor over your enemy can be deciding factor in a match.
So either implement it in 4v4 and 3v3s only, or drop the feature all together. Same with maingun crits.


Removing entirely really would be preferable. They're just not good features, despite what people would like to pretend. Same as flamer crits were.
19 Sep 2021, 20:13 PM
#19
avatar of Klement Pikhtura

Posts: 772

jump backJump back to quoted post19 Sep 2021, 19:13 PMPip


Removing entirely really would be preferable. They're just not good features, despite what people would like to pretend. Same as flamer crits were.

on paper it is a fun and "realistic" mechanic, but in practice it produces a lot of frustration and punishes aggressive play.
20 Sep 2021, 01:06 AM
#20
avatar of mrgame2

Posts: 1794

jump backJump back to quoted post19 Sep 2021, 19:05 PMPip


That does not represent a particularly meaningful amount of players, and I doubt it is a "majority", merely a very loud minority.


Lol.


i have to disagree, rather those wanting removal are the loud minority.

im not going to convince you as you are not to me.

but let just say, abandoned as a mechanic to gain access to enemy vehicle is a great feature and unless relic creates new feature to replace it. removing it is just cutting down the potential of emergent gameplay and layers. most players want to play a mulit faceted games.

it is what it is.


on paper it is a fun and "realistic" mechanic, but in practice it produces a lot of frustration and punishes aggressive play.


i have to disagree but i am not going to convince you. let just say abandoned have to stay. but we have to study what are the impact that some of you claims dislike.

a simple solution is by adding resources usage to repairing a captured tank. would that work?

it gives players another decision making stop, to see whether salvaging a P4 20 mins in a match a worth or not.

in fact, my theory is, those who dislike abandoned, how many games have you lost due to this always cited example of 'it punishes aggressive plays'? is it very common and impactful or just a theory because the dislike of random outcomes?

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