give the okw a sniper

Kubles could afford to be a bit better against snipers but I don't think okw needs their own as a counter.

Watch what USF does against ost.
Might give you an idea or two.

you mean get a mortar from t0 and just smoke it? yeah that helps owk alot - but wait. there is no smoke or indirect fire for okw t0.

how does okw deal with the mg and sniper?
in 4v4 the okw is the shit

4v4 OKW you anyway should go Panzerfusiliers and Jagtpanther. double kügel into Mechanized it always works good when they start spamming mortars ect.

If you micro your kübels good, you will kill infantry fairly quickly and at the sametime dont bleed tons of manpower early game.

they come around 6min mark.

You don't need to kill a sniper right away in order to counter it. They are expensive and require tech to build, you can afford to bleed a bit against them for a few minutes and still come out on top.

Watch what USF does against ost.
Might give you an idea or two.

What so just cry and pray?

Dealing with snipers from my experience:
OKW: Kubel are great, luchs later on also
USF: M20 if lieutenant, AA HT can support infantry if captain
Soviet: Sniper or clown car or AA
OST: sniper, light vehicles
Brits: Sniper, AEC, UC early on
Puma is also worth mentioning.

OKW doesn't need sniper, they are strong infantry-wise already.

Dealing with snipers from my experience:
OKW: Kubel are great, luchs later on also
USF: M20 if lieutenant, AA HT can support infantry if captain
Soviet: Sniper or clown car or AA
OST: sniper, light vehicles
Brits: Sniper, AEC, UC early on
Puma is also worth mentioning.

OKW doesn't need sniper, they are strong infantry-wise already.

Correct me if I'm wrong but you are exclusively a USF player. How can you have experience using axis units to counter an allied sniper if you've never played an axis faction?

And how can you even have experience getting YOUR sniper countered if you dont play factions that can even get them? Last I checked USF didn't have snipers...

Kubel, leig, stuka (earliest arty among all factions), luchs, puma aimed shot. Obers with lmg are also very dangerous if they let them get in range just once. Also you can put schu mines in possible sniper locations, typically cover, ostheer has difficulties with it using a 251 ht for that.
Plenty of sniper counters there.

Doctrinally there are the 221 and the jaegers and falls.
In fact jaegers are sort of a sniper squad.

Personally, I say remove and replace all one man snipers.

Personally, I say remove and replace all one man snipers.

Patch Note December 2020:

- Soviet Sniper now changed back to two model unit

Personally, I say remove and replace all one man snipers.

8 years too late for that tbh.

Patch Note December 2020:

- Soviet Sniper now changed back to two model unit

Light infantry

Personally, I say remove and replace all one man snipers.

2 man snipers ?

Correct me if I'm wrong but you are exclusively a USF player. How can you have experience using axis units to counter an allied sniper if you've never played an axis faction?

And how can you even have experience getting YOUR sniper countered if you dont play factions that can even get them? Last I checked USF didn't have snipers...

Only in competitive. I play lots of standard rules, standard maps custom games vs different opponents and if I want to loosen up and relax I play automatch vs experts. I've played enough games with each faction. USF I only play in comptetitive, relaxation is for OKW and brits mostly.

And for competitive sniper plays, I've never had problems playing vs OST players that go snipers. I'd just evade and ignore the sniper and focus on capping points while my AA HT is coming along boosted by captain. And I see a lot of clown car plays or T70 from the soviet allies. Honestly, it was easiest to counter snipers back when I was around rank 20. Those top players really are careful with their sniper. When I dropped to 300, those guys got 2 snipers and were not afraid AT ALL to use them against everything. Of course, we'd win from the map control, but those starting minutes were really cancerous, bleeding a lot.

Point is:
- Automatch vs players: USF
- Automatch vs Expert/Custom games (same rules and maps as ranked): OKW mostly, then brits, then OST, then soviets (soviets are not my cup of tea).

2 man snipers ?

Light Infantry

Kubels are very map dependent and have to often rotate perpendicular to map lane after pulling a flank which make it very vulnerable to the penal or IS supporting the sniper. JLI is complete rng at least without vet.

Imo since okw is infantry oriented, they don’t need a direct sniper counter. What they need is awareness and prevention, involving some player input and decision making.

-“Awareness”: Kubel vet 1 infantry awareness is the key. It gets vet 1 quite easily. However due to its vulnerability, you will likely lose it unless parked behind shotblockers or incredible babysit. I would swap vet 1 to vet 0 similarly to soviet mortar and add a small muni cost (5-10 muni to activate the scan). Maybe make it immobile to compensate.

-“Prevention”: What would benefit okw is, imo, a stormtrooper camo type unit. Of course not assault, but scout/skirmisher and hit and run. That would shift brute force playstyle into setting up and micro manage. I can see JLI having at least a better camo, but losing the sight range.

Kubels are very map dependent and have to often rotate perpendicular to map lane after pulling a flank which make it very vulnerable to the penal or IS supporting the sniper. JLI is complete rng at least without vet.

Imo since okw is infantry oriented, they don’t need a direct sniper counter. What they need is awareness and prevention, involving some player input and decision making.

-“Awareness”: Kubel vet 1 infantry awareness is the key. It gets vet 1 quite easily. However due to its vulnerability, you will likely lose it unless parked behind shotblockers or incredible babysit. I would swap vet 1 to vet 0 similarly to soviet mortar and add a small muni cost (5-10 muni to activate the scan). Maybe make it immobile to compensate.

-“Prevention”: What would benefit okw is, imo, a stormtrooper camo type unit. Of course not assault, but scout/skirmisher and hit and run. That would shift brute force playstyle into setting up and micro manage. I can see JLI having at least a better camo, but losing the sight range.

Kubel and flak are probably the only micro intensive units in OKW. Kubel more so because, early on it's great for harassment and bleed, later on you really do need to micro it to be outside of snare range (snares on kubel are certain death).
While OKW is not micro intensive, it's decision intensive. That's what makes it difficult to play in smaller team modes. Although, the seldom times I actually watch top 2v2 games to see what top players play... even more seldom are times when OKW is rekt early on. Top OKW players seem to stand their ground vs early USF/brit plays. I don't know if that's because they are "SO much BETTER than their enemies" (highly doubt it), or because the balance is... you know.... in a good spot right now. Nothing stands out too much, some units are underwhelming and some really return a good reward, but nothing game breaking. OKW doesn't need sniper, neither does USF.

Kubel and flak are probably the only micro intensive units in OKW. Kubel more so because, early on it's great for harassment and bleed, later on you really do need to micro it to be outside of snare range (snares on kubel are certain death).
While OKW is not micro intensive, it's decision intensive. That's what makes it difficult to play in smaller team modes. Although, the seldom times I actually watch top 2v2 games to see what top players play... even more seldom are times when OKW is rekt early on. Top OKW players seem to stand their ground vs early USF/brit plays. I don't know if that's because they are "SO much BETTER than their enemies" (highly doubt it), or because the balance is... you know.... in a good spot right now. Nothing stands out too much, some units are underwhelming and some really return a good reward, but nothing game breaking. OKW doesn't need sniper, neither does USF.

I would argue that OKW is micro intensive since you have to play very aggressively early on due to lack of support weapons (amen to the long overdue tech changes). Volks and sturmpios need to close in due to lack of lmgs. Decision making is not that hard cause of the very concrete tech tree (commander choice completely shifts that of course).

Mainline to mainline balance is very good. However okw (and usf of course) struggle against good sniper play. That might not be the case in lower game modes where that translates to map presence and harassment, but in higher game modes where your teammates cover for you and harassment is minimal (And maps dont favor flank that much), this is quite oppressive. I have been matching against top 20 players in 3v3 and it’s exponentially hard to deal with sniper, especially when lights and mgs/indirect rolls in.

I would argue that OKW is micro intensive since you have to play very aggressively early on due to lack of support weapons

On offtopic I disagree with that

OKW is not agressive but rather evasive, they are all about ambushing with STpios and delaying the opponent, because in a 1v1 matchup volks can effectively fight only Conscripts.

OST is defensive
USF is offensive
Soviets can chose, but closer to offensive anyway
UKF is something in between

I have been matching against top 20 players in 3v3 and it’s exponentially hard to deal with sniper, especially when lights and mgs/indirect rolls in.

Well depending on their build, when they throw sniper after they got enouth mainline inf its hard, but by that time you can get somesort of the counters. Like JLI for excample.

If they build snipers in early game, then I find its easy in 3v3 to just suicide rush it with kubel when opportunity allows. Because even if kubel dies, you still will win in a MP bleed anyway.

On offtopic I disagree with that

OKW is not agressive but rather evasive, they are all about ambushing with STpios and delaying the opponent, because in a 1v1 matchup volks can effectively fight only Conscripts.

OST is defensive
USF is offensive
Soviets can chose, but closer to offensive anyway
UKF is something in between


Well depending on their build, when they throw sniper after they got enouth mainline inf its hard, but by that time you can get somesort of the counters. Like JLI for excample.

If they build snipers in early game, then I find its easy in 3v3 to just suicide rush it with kubel when opportunity allows. Because even if kubel dies, you still will win in a MP bleed anyway.

Well playing aggressively doesn't mean the faction is aggressive. You have to go for hard map control, pick/make good cover early on, flank, 2v1 whenever possible (even less so after volks mp nerf). I am not saying OKW excels at it, but can somewhat pick good trades with flame nade, sandbags and sturmpio ambushes. Doesn't mean volks are good at attacking head on. But you can't camp either because you don't have early support weapons.

Yeah kubel dive definitely is a good call, but needs good assessment and wounding the sniper a bit otherwise it's very likely a lost kubel (penals will shred it, even without ptrs and brit will most likely have RE closeby for the snare).

JLI I find it rng, and really depends if u catch the sniper inside or outside yellow cover, and if u can get a good positioning to fire 2-3 volleys on the retreat path. That's why I advocate for a better camo to pick a good positioning.