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Sandbags

31 May 2020, 16:17 PM
#21
avatar of T.R. Stormjäger

Posts: 3588 | Subs: 3

However currently sandbags on mainlines are a big part of their power level and tinkering with that would cause ripple effects that would probably require quite significant adjustments to fix, so that's not really something that could be done at this point.


If removal is not an option, is nerfing an option?
31 May 2020, 19:06 PM
#22
avatar of SkysTheLimit

Posts: 3423 | Subs: 1



If removal is not an option, is nerfing an option?


I second this question
31 May 2020, 19:10 PM
#23
avatar of achpawel

Posts: 1351


(...) currently sandbags on mainlines are a big part of their power level and tinkering with that would cause ripple effects that would probably require quite significant adjustments to fix, so that's not really something that could be done at this point.


I'd give it a shot tbh. Especially if nerfs were needed. Better to remove sandbags first and see what happens rather then nerf, for example, tommies.

Another approach, and maybe even better, could include making them a muni paid ability (idk 10munitions). This would make players make choices on whether they are really required or if it is better to stick to terrain cover. It could limit just spamming them in a sort of "the more, the merrier" fashion.
31 May 2020, 19:16 PM
#24
avatar of Katitof

Posts: 17914 | Subs: 8

Better to remove sandbags first and see what happens rather then nerf, for example, tommies.

And you've lost all credibility by that single sentence, not even understanding that's the MASSIVE nerf for tommies.
31 May 2020, 19:24 PM
#25
avatar of KiwiBirb

Posts: 789

jump backJump back to quoted post31 May 2020, 19:16 PMKatitof

And you've lost all credibility by that single sentence, not even understanding that's the MASSIVE nerf for tommies.


Tommies still have trenches.

Do you even play the game?
31 May 2020, 19:32 PM
#26
avatar of achpawel

Posts: 1351

jump backJump back to quoted post31 May 2020, 19:16 PMKatitof

And you've lost all credibility by that single sentence, not even understanding that's the MASSIVE nerf for tommies.


I understand that Your credibility is impeccable.

But to the point. I do understand that not building sandbags, though a bit risky, might kill a lot of birds birds with just one stone. That's why I'd really give it a shot. It would indirectly buff the problematic grens, nerf overpresent volks (sturmpios would build sandbags), nerf overperforming IS sections (but again they would have efficient sappers who could build them after the first few minutes, maybe UKF players would finally start using mgs they have in t0 instead of spamming sections), nerf oorah cons (that would have to stay mobile and not just wait for grens to assault them, cheap CEs would still build them). Rifles could benefit from echelons building them a bit, making USF more viable.

I do understand what it means. Remember that I also suggested a small munitions cost as an alternative approach.
31 May 2020, 19:32 PM
#27
avatar of SkysTheLimit

Posts: 3423 | Subs: 1



Tommies still have trenches.

Do you even play the game?

Trenches require friendly territory. One of the most common times you see sandbags built is while capturing points

Having trenches does not mean removing sandbags from IS would not be a big nerf
31 May 2020, 19:47 PM
#28
avatar of Baba

Posts: 600



Tommies still have trenches.

Do you even play the game?


he doesnt :D
31 May 2020, 19:52 PM
#29
avatar of BlueKnight

Posts: 320

It would indirectly buff the problematic grens, nerf overpresent volks (sturmpios would build sandbags), nerf overperforming IS sections

You mean it would turn every game into panzerfusilier run&gun spam and send Brits back to the pit, kill cons entirely...
31 May 2020, 20:00 PM
#30
avatar of Katitof

Posts: 17914 | Subs: 8



Tommies still have trenches.

Do you even play the game?

Would you like to share with the class all the ways brits can pick someone out of a stolen trench?
Have you ever wondered why top players never build them unless its extreme situation?
They don't have engineers with flamers, nor can they throw accessible lava nades.
31 May 2020, 20:10 PM
#31
avatar of achpawel

Posts: 1351


You mean it would turn every game into panzerfusilier run&gun spam and send Brits back to the pit, kill cons entirely...

I'd make some tests with those muni paid or just sandbags moved to engineers. It is one of the simplest changes to implement. You are probably right about panzerfufusilieren. But they are just probably too good with those g43s or whatever that is. Maybe the upgrade should be cheaper and less deadly.
31 May 2020, 21:19 PM
#32
avatar of Euan

Posts: 177

jump backJump back to quoted post31 May 2020, 20:00 PMKatitof
Would you like to share with the class all the ways brits can pick someone out of a stolen trench?
Have you ever wondered why top players never build them unless its extreme situation?
They don't have engineers with flamers, nor can they throw accessible lava nades.


This, exactly. People complain about Tommies / Vickers in cover but... literally every faction has better access to indirect and garrison cleaning tools than UKF.

Trenches are utterly pointless as UKF in 99% of situations. They have a long build time and the first enemy squad that comes along will pop in a flame nade / blendkorper / flamer / bundle nade / whatever, you get your troops out of the trench while getting burned exploded and shot at, then have to instantly retreat and gift the trench to the enemy. They just don't get built above rank 1000 except in very special circumstances.
31 May 2020, 22:31 PM
#33
avatar of T.R. Stormjäger

Posts: 3588 | Subs: 3

jump backJump back to quoted post31 May 2020, 20:00 PMKatitof

Would you like to share with the class all the ways brits can pick someone out of a stolen trench?
Have you ever wondered why top players never build them unless its extreme situation?
They don't have engineers with flamers, nor can they throw accessible lava nades.


huh???????

wtf is this lmao

you don't place a trench at the mid VP, you place them in positions on your opponent's side where they're only occupied if you attack.

Jibber got to rank 6 UKF with Trenches.
1 Jun 2020, 06:39 AM
#34
avatar of Partisanship

Posts: 260

I would argue that the fact every faction has an issue attacking a reinforced position suggests that sandbags is balanced.

I disagree with the idea of removing or nerfing sandbags. Cover is a core mechanic of the game and a player that takes the time to reinforce their position to push back on enemy charges sounds reasonable to me.

If the complaint is how readily available they are, I would point out that these covers can be used as readily by the opponent. Yes, there is barb wire, but that requires engineer units which in nearly all cases other than Ostheer requires two separate units at play. It is weak to flame throwers and due to it being static it can be rendered ineffective with smoke from mortars.
2 Jun 2020, 16:40 PM
#35
avatar of achpawel

Posts: 1351

.

Having read all the above, the game beginning shouldn't be a marathon of sandbagging and art of capping point sandbag positioning. To me, it just feels odd. At the same time if sandbags were even 5-10 munitions some though would be required whether to build them or not, even if infantry units could still build them.

One other thing is that moving sandbags from mainline infantry to engineers could really positively affect the gameplay as a whole (still for free). Also it seems a better way to balance infanty units. Think, for example, about the fact that sandbags could be only on one side of the map (where engineers went) early game, thus making the game more balanced by allowing the other side of the map to be taken more easily by a faction that has fewer assault units, etc. Basically combining engineers and mainline infantry would be more rewarded, which I believe is the essence of this game.
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