Are the patches making this game progressively worse?

I feel like this game has been getting worse and worse with each balance patch and it's been that way since 2018. They're making all these changes and basically turning this upside down I hardly recognize it anymore and I was a late comer to this game, started playing about 3 years ago.

I'm trying to get into Hearts of Iron IV, but I think you need some kind of college level course dedicated to learning how to play that game.

Um... so you are mad that the game has been updated?

I don’t play HoI but I wish you luck. Watching casts of CoH on YouTube really helped improve at coh, maybe watch some HoI casts?

Well maybe I don't understand the point of these patches. Is their primary purpose to make the game progressively more balanced with each update or is it just to change the meta? Personally I hate the latter. I can't stand the constant changes to unit stats and having to relearn the game every 3-6 months.

Hear me out, if you really learn the game ONCE properly, you don't need to relearn the game every 3-6 months.

If you just copy meta builds and don't understand why they are meta and they work, you will just keep crashing your head whenever the most OP shit gets nerfed.

If you're willing to learn HoI4, which requires a completely different temperament, I wonder why u fail to understand the basics of CoH2.

If you're willing to learn HoI4, which requires a completely different temperament, I wonder why u fail to understand the basics of CoH2.

LOL I haven't come close to learning that game. Looks really interesting but I can't even figure out how to move units around. I've only spent like 1/2 an hour on that game though. I got it after the COVID19 quarantines started figuring I'd have enough time to learn it.

The game will never be "ready", they patched it and keep patching. Something is always changed so extreme, that it need to be changed in next patch, like now heavy tanks are useless vs infantry.

Next patch will be something like: "We felt ISU and elephant were built in every game and tigers and is2 not, so we lowered their cp and add some damage vs infantry."

Only if you are progressively sticking to what's op instead of balanced.

Had a few games. Soviets can still steamroll you. Brits are back. Ostheer can cap a bit faster and has no Tiger crutch. The Sturmtiger buff is locked behind vet 1 and costs ammo. It's basically 3 strong allied factions against Germans without siginificant buffs that also have Tigers that hit them harder than anybody else. It's basically what I warned of before. We have to wait what the meta evolves to but from playing about 6 games this is my observation.

The balance team are doing a good job

So you wish last patch never happened? Imagine if brits were left UP and the game was never patched again

It can be frustrating to have to re-learn how to use units you thought you knew before. It can be especially painful when you develop cool non-meta strategies, and then whole unit or faction designs are thrown out of the window by the balance team and they become useless. It can be annoying that new commanders or units mess up some core aspects of the original design of the game (WFA...).

HOWEVER.

Without the balance patches, this game would have died years ago. Now, the game is probably in the most balanced state it's ever been. If you remember some of the crazy shit we've had over the years, invincible planes, literal win-button abilities, units that could take on armies by themselves...

It's maybe the best RTS ever developed and the changes to it are keeping it alive and interesting, and it's crazy hard to make such a complex game with asymmetric balance. So even if they don't get it perfect (and it can be annoying sometimes ), I think we should say thanks to Relic and the community balance team for making such an awesome game

I do agree that in many aspects patches do focus in simply shifting meta. But that is not the only thing they do and imo claiming that is rather unfair.

Having that said imo there should be a couple of patches that focus less on shifting and more of fixings a very large number of issues that seem to have been categorized as "low priority". Imo that game would benefit tremendously by such a fix more than simply shifting the meta.

We had 2 commander rework sessions and 5 new commanders in the last years. There were several other improvements as well. People who say that the game is worse after the patches are completely disrespectful to the amount of time these guys put into improving the game.

That being said I just dont understand why some clearly overperforming units are nerfed (Tigers, Falls) and others not(Pack howie, SU-152, Shocks for example).
But there should be an official feedback thread to the state of the balance to discuss this points although I already know that a constructive discussion about balance is nearly impossible on coh2.org because the thread will immediately be derailed by axis/allies fanboys. But my hope dies last.

People who say that the game is worse after the patches are completely disrespectful to the amount of time these guys put into improving the game.

This is the problem. Too may people seem to think that contribution equals quality and therefore criticism is unwarranted. I don't think anyone knows who is really making the final decision on any patch and what limitations are placed on those working on the patch. However imo the direction patches have taken over the last few years have done very little to improve the game overall from an enjoyment perspective. Is it more balance across all modes, probably, but frustration when playing any faction is through the roof because every faction is jamb packed with cancer...

And before the usual retards rush in with rank references and l2p quips, let me just say I know how to play, I just dislike how the game has evolved. Hell I won't even watch a stream anymore unless its someone like vonivan or someone that is entertaining because the game has just become cheesey boring crap.

This is the problem. Too may people seem to think that contribution equals quality and therefore criticism is unwarranted. I don't think anyone knows who is really making the final decision on any patch and what limitations are placed on those working on the patch. However imo the direction patches have taken over the last few years have done very little to improve the game overall from an enjoyment perspective. Is it more balance across all modes, probably, but frustration when playing any faction is through the roof because every faction is jamb packed with cancer...

And before the usual retards rush in with rank references and l2p quips, let me just say I know how to play, I just dislike how the game has evolved. Hell I won't even watch a stream anymore unless its someone like vonivan or someone that is entertaining because the game has just become cheesey boring crap.

they are balancing better than the relic sledgehammer approach. Relics old answer to an OP unit was to nerf it in five different ways eg comet.

The game will take time to balance after so many years of up and down powerspikes and bizare design decisions (OKW vet 5, old brits having crappy vet but strong out gate, USF tech limitations. Right now we have the balance tema doing a great job AND adding new content in the form of commander redesigns keeping the game alive.

In sanders own words they are taking things slow, I know people will point to the tiger last patch but that was actually bugged.

I'm trying to get into Hearts of Iron IV, but I think you need some kind of college level course dedicated to learning how to play that game.

roflmao

I was a very high level player there for a couple years and I guarantee you it's way easier than Company of Heroes 2.

LOL I haven't come close to learning that game. Looks really interesting but I can't even figure out how to move units around. I've only spent like 1/2 an hour on that game though. I got it after the COVID19 quarantines started figuring I'd have enough time to learn it.

You're a hoi4 noob until about 1000 hours in. Get ready for lobby simulator.

It can be frustrating to have to re-learn how to use units you thought you knew before. It can be especially painful when you develop cool non-meta strategies, and then whole unit or faction designs are thrown out of the window by the balance team and they become useless. It can be annoying that new commanders or units mess up some core aspects of the original design of the game (WFA...).

HOWEVER.

Without the balance patches, this game would have died years ago. Now, the game is probably in the most balanced state it's ever been. If you remember some of the crazy shit we've had over the years, invincible planes, literal win-button abilities, units that could take on armies by themselves...

It's maybe the best RTS ever developed and the changes to it are keeping it alive and interesting, and it's crazy hard to make such a complex game with asymmetric balance. So even if they don't get it perfect (and it can be annoying sometimes ), I think we should say thanks to Relic and the community balance team for making such an awesome game

+1

This is the problem. Too may people seem to think that contribution equals quality and therefore criticism is unwarranted.

Well, I never said that players should not criticize the mod's team decisions - I do. If you ask me Soviets are way too strong and should have get some hard nerfs. But I know how hard these guys work and the least thing people should do is to present their claims in a respectful way (btw you did).
And we also should keep in mind that its nearly impossible to make all players happy. If the mod team would decide to nerf some soviet units ( I hope we see that in the not so distant future) the allied fanboys would run amok. If overperforming axis units get toned down the axis brigade runs amok on this forum.

Just look at us: You think that the game is not as fun as before: because of cheese stuff. I personally think that the game has less cheese than before. I started playing COH2 when US mortars nuked everything away and Rifles could be equoiped with 2&M19 and Volks had insane veterancy, not to speak of the cancer emplacements that ruined the game. Although we play the same game we fundamentally disagree about the fun factor, thats why I think making balance changes is the worst job you can do. A lot of work and testing and in the end you can be happy if people dont attack you on forums. And these attacks very often come from people who gave a shit about testing before a patch is released.

Honestly, it drives me crazy to see that people always complain but never try to help in a constructive manner. Of course there are also players that actually test things (Aerafield, Sully, Stark, Lago and other come to mind) but the number of crybabies on this site is huge compared to the number of people who are willing to support the community team.

Thats why Im grateful for the work of the mod team even if I disagree on certain decisions.

Just look at us: You think that the game is not as fun as before: because of cheese stuff. I personally think that the game has less cheese than before.

A wild thought:
Game is less fun specifically because there is less cheese, while meta isn't as tight shut as asscheeks of someone bending to pick up a soap in prison, fotm is still stronk.
Cheese strats in itself aren't bad, they enrich the game and break staleness of meta and it doesn't matter if you like to play against it or not, its still something fresh between all hardcore meta matches, bad balance was always biggest problem, elevating certain cheese units to insane level and outside of above average players and bored pros, no one wants to leave a comfy meta bos that are boring but reliable.

For once, I'll actually agree with CoDguy. The bal team hasn't improved balance much. All they do is fix one problem and introduce two more. Meta easily finds something that is batshit OP about each patch and exploits it.

The bal team seems like they've never heard of quality control because even Tightrope does much more rigorous testing (in just a 40 min video testing the entire patch) than the bal team themselves. For example, last patch when the OP falls were introduced, Tightrope tested upgraded falls vs double LMG paras at max range in 3 separate tests. On average, paras barely survived with 2 men with a sliver of health. WHAT A FUCKING JOKE!!!! A 360mp120muni unit vs a 340/60 unit with camo, first strike bonus, not one but TWO nades, and faust almost beats out a more expensive squad with much less utility.

Tightrope just did like a few tests by himself and that's already a better job than what the bal team did in terms of testing. Nobody forgot about the JLI meta either. Or when all LVs were batshit OP when stuart had almost the same AI power as T70 but also was great vs LVs had basically the unnerfed pak TWP ability to allow it to delete a LV of its choosing, etc. And don't forget the USF mortar. It took THREE FUCKING PATCHES to finally balance that unit. Over the years, the evidence is overwhelming how poor of a job the bal team did. THERE IS ZERO QUALITY CONTROL IN THE BALANCE TEAM PATCHES.

And there is also overwhelming evidence of biased treatment of particular factions. As I've said a million times, when an Ost unit gets slightly OP, it is nerfed to the ground immediately in hotfix, ie. Brummbar. When an allied unit is OP ie. USF mortar, it takes fucking forever to fix, or gets a fake nerf like the "supposed" nerf to pak howi, which is still wiping units left right and centre. The patch that we had all winter, SU and USF were extremely OP while axis had to crutch on the Tiger cuz everything else they had sucked. And alot of it could have been hotfixed, like remove falls faust, remove all combat bonuses from 7man upgrade, but no, bal team wanted to milk these OP units for as long as possible and released the "winter" patch in spring. Are they gonna blame that on the coronavirus??!!! And again, the ninja nerf to the Ost cap rate from 25% to 10%. Completely uncalled for. Obviously, the allied crybabies must have shouted to the high heavens about that one.

And when Ost needs buffs, according to Sander, the bal team needs to consider the opinions (actually, just "feelings") of the 4v4 playerbase, because little Timmy doesn't know anything else other than "a-move blob." So go ask Sander why the fuck Ost apparently need special treatment every fucking time.