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COH2 winter balance mod - discussion

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30 Jan 2020, 21:07 PM
#501
avatar of blvckdream

Posts: 2458 | Subs: 1



A valid argument is also that the raketen released with the worst range of any AT gun in the game, and had the retreat option because it had to expose itself compared to other AT guns, but now it has been buffed to match other AT guns. Should be updated.


No it's not. It still has less range. Also still has less penetration than Pak40. Takes ages to aim. Has no gun-shield. Hits terrain a lot.
30 Jan 2020, 21:08 PM
#502
avatar of Kubelecer

Posts: 403



Yes when they become Pak 40 clones in terms of stats. Otherwise Raks would be complete garbage. They are already worse than regular AT-guns as it is and at the same time more expensive than USF M1.


It already is a PAK 40 clone with the only difference of having 10 less range, which is really insignificant considering it is way easier to move and rotate than towed AT guns.
30 Jan 2020, 21:09 PM
#503
avatar of blvckdream

Posts: 2458 | Subs: 1



It already is a PAK 40 clone with the only difference of having 10 less range, which is really insignificant considering it is way easier to move and rotate than towed AT guns.


God please look up the stats before saying stuff like this.
30 Jan 2020, 21:09 PM
#504
avatar of Stug life

Posts: 4474



A valid argument is also that the raketen released with the worst range of any AT gun in the game, and had the retreat option because it had to expose itself compared to other AT guns, but now it has been buffed to match other AT guns. Should be updated.
?????
30 Jan 2020, 21:11 PM
#505
avatar of blvckdream

Posts: 2458 | Subs: 1

?????


Yeah he is just talking out of his ass and doesn't even bother looking up the stats.
30 Jan 2020, 21:11 PM
#506
avatar of Kubelecer

Posts: 403



God please look up the stats before saying stuff like this.


Literally 10 less range and 10 less penetration.

Prove me wrong.
30 Jan 2020, 21:13 PM
#508
avatar of ShadowLinkX37
Director of Moderation Badge

Posts: 4183 | Subs: 4



Literally 10 less range and 10 less penetration.

Prove me wrong.


rak range is 55, all other stock AT guns have 60. The penetration matches the zis gun, which is 10 less at all ranges than the 6 pounder and pak 40. M1 is its own thing.

@blvck, 5 man. Other than that though you still can't wipe it without rocket arty as USF.
30 Jan 2020, 21:14 PM
#509
avatar of Princeps

Posts: 214



Literally 10 less range and 10 less penetration.

Prove me wrong.


Lets lets cut 10 Range from M36... its only 10...
30 Jan 2020, 21:14 PM
#510
avatar of SkysTheLimit

Posts: 3423 | Subs: 1


They are already worse than regular AT-guns as it is and at the same time more expensive than USF M1.


Lol no it isn't. US m1 is only better after spending 30 Muni? And it's in a 35 fuel tier?
30 Jan 2020, 21:15 PM
#511
avatar of blvckdream

Posts: 2458 | Subs: 1



Literally 10 less range and 10 less penetration.

Prove me wrong.


ok

Raketenwerfer
55 range
200-190-180 pen
0.25-0.38 fire aim time
0.13 ready aim time
reload 3.8-4.3

Pak 40
60 range
210-200-190 penetration
0.13-0.25 fire aim time
0.13 ready aim time
reload 3.5-4.1
30 Jan 2020, 21:15 PM
#512
avatar of Stug life

Posts: 4474

the cover too
30 Jan 2020, 21:16 PM
#513
avatar of blvckdream

Posts: 2458 | Subs: 1



Lol no it isn't. US m1 is only better after spending 30 Muni? And it's in a 35 fuel tier?


Rak is 290. M1 is 270. OKW tech is overall not cheaper than USF tech so the tier argument is completely meaningless.
Yes M1 costs more muni. But it also has 10x better stats than the Raketenwerfer when muni is used. Including around 66 range, self spotting, insane ROF, etc.
30 Jan 2020, 21:18 PM
#514
avatar of blvckdream

Posts: 2458 | Subs: 1


@blvck, 5 man. Other than that though you still can't wipe it without rocket arty as USF.


I completely disagree. 5 men Rak is still easier to wipe than 4 man Pak40 due to not having any gun shield and the way Raketenwerfer crews clump up when moving the gun.

HE Sherman, Scott Pak Howi, Bar Blobs, they can all wipe the Raketenwerfer without any problems.
30 Jan 2020, 21:19 PM
#515
avatar of Sander93

Posts: 3166 | Subs: 6

Literally 10 less range and 10 less penetration.

Prove me wrong.


The Raketten has 55 range, the Pak 40 has 60;
It has 200/190/180 pen as opposed to 210/200/190, but at lower ranges, so technically even worse;
It has slightly worse accuracy than the Pak 40 for the same reason;
It doesn't have a gunshield, and even though gunshields don't function properly they do offer additional protection in some situations. Though the extra crewmember is supposed to compensate this;
Reload is 0.12s slower, but practically negligible;
Its gun traverse is better than the Pak 40 at -35/35 vs -30/30;
Pak 40 gets better veterancy bonuses, most importantly getting better penetration and faster reload.
30 Jan 2020, 21:23 PM
#516
avatar of SkysTheLimit

Posts: 3423 | Subs: 1



Rak is 290. M1 is 270. OKW tech is overall not cheaper than USF tech so the tier argument is completely meaningless.


Uhh the fact that you get a Rak in your HQ no matter what but you only get 57mm after tech choice is most certainly not meaningless. What kind of statement is that?


Yes M1 costs more muni. But it also has 10x better stats than the Raketenwerfer when muni is used. Including around 66 range, self spotting, insane ROF, etc.


I have said numerous times 57mm is the best AT gun. But saying it's cheaper is just nonsense. 20mp cheaper once vs. spending 30 Muni multiple times

And those bonus stats on Take Aim require muni too
30 Jan 2020, 21:23 PM
#517
avatar of Kubelecer

Posts: 403

My bad, forgot they got even more buffed to become more streamlined AT gun.





Yes when they become Pak 40 clones in terms of stats. Otherwise Raks would be complete garbage. They are already worse than regular AT-guns as it is and at the same time more expensive than USF M1.



ok

Raketenwerfer
55 range
200-190-180 pen
0.25-0.38 fire aim time
0.13 ready aim time
reload 3.8-4.3

Pak 40
60 range
210-200-190 penetration
0.13-0.25 fire aim time
0.13 ready aim time
reload 3.5-4.1


You have done anything but proved me wrong, it's even better than what I said.
30 Jan 2020, 21:26 PM
#518
avatar of blvckdream

Posts: 2458 | Subs: 1

My bad, forgot they got even more buffed to become more streamlined AT gun.







You have done anything but proved me wrong, it's even better than what I said.


Sorry but are you capable of reading and comprehending simple stats or not? Because to me it really seems like you can't. Maybe I am talking gibberish and you can't understand it so here is another post to help you out:


The Raketten has 55 range, the Pak 40 has 60;
It has 200/190/180 pen as opposed to 210/200/190, but at lower ranges, so technically even worse;
It has slightly worse accuracy than the Pak 40 for the same reason;
It doesn't have a gunshield, and even though gunshields don't function properly they do offer additional protection in some situations. Though the extra crewmember is supposed to compensate this;
Reload is 0.12s slower, but practically negligible;
Its gun traverse is better than the Pak 40 at -35/35 vs -30/30;
Pak 40 gets better veterancy bonuses, most importantly getting better penetration and faster reload.
30 Jan 2020, 21:27 PM
#519
avatar of Kubelecer

Posts: 403



The Raketten has 55 range, the Pak 40 has 60;
It has 200/190/180 pen as opposed to 210/200/190, but at lower ranges, so technically even worse;
It has slightly worse accuracy than the Pak 40 for the same reason;
It doesn't have a gunshield, and even though gunshields don't function properly they do offer additional protection in some situations. Though the extra crewmember is supposed to compensate this;
Reload is 0.12s slower, but practically negligible;
Its gun traverse is better than the Pak 40 at -35/35 vs -30/30;
Pak 40 gets better veterancy bonuses, most importantly getting better penetration and faster reload.


Thank you.

Based on these stats raketen is a viable AT gun than what it previously was. It is also the only AT gun to be able to garrison buildings. It having retreat is not a huge problem personally but it might be something that needs to be looked eventually.
30 Jan 2020, 21:29 PM
#520
avatar of blvckdream

Posts: 2458 | Subs: 1



Uhh the fact that you get a Rak in your HQ no matter what but you only get 57mm after tech choice is most certainly not meaningless. What kind of statement is that?



I have said numerous times 57mm is the best AT gun. But saying it's cheaper is just nonsense. 20mp cheaper once vs. spending 30 Muni multiple times

And those bonus stats require muni too


I guess in 1v1 that is true but in 2v2 Captain tier is meta and basically never skipped. You don't need the M1 in T0 anyway as Axis doesn't have any ultra-light vehicles other than Kübels that could be a problem. So yeah having Raketenwerfer in T0 is better than having M1 tied to Captain but it's irrelevant in 90% of games because as I said Captain is meta.
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