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russian armor

Panzerwerfer fix

8 Jan 2020, 09:16 AM
#41
avatar of JulianSnow

Posts: 321

Also the werfer has way less recharge time, and a super handy ability at vet 1 (vs useless ability of the katy).
8 Jan 2020, 11:42 AM
#42
avatar of ZeroZeroNi

Posts: 1563


The Katy can land at most 3 rockets before the Axis player realizes what happens. You need a decent junk of luck to wipe with that. After that, you know exactly where the rest of the barrage will go down.
The Panzerwerfer is more hit or miss, but the damage done is way higher. It's risk vs reward. Also, unlike the Katy, you never know where it will hit. If you repositioned the wrong unit or your opponent won the mind game and predicted your path, you'll eat everything. If the SOV player won the mindgame, you'll still only eat 3 rockets

Doesn't the shadow of the rockets give away where it's going to land???
8 Jan 2020, 12:18 PM
#43
avatar of Butcher

Posts: 1217

The problem with the Panzerwerfer is its limited area of effect. It is designed to have a chance of wiping 1 unit. Nothing more. Now if you want to play mind games with your enemy (targeting vs dodging) the werfer will be a failure more often than any other arty since you only cover that small area. In the end the Werfer is dodged more easily.

Secondly the Werfer has to deal with large Soviet formations (6 men crewsand sqauds) that cover huge areas. A Werfer will not push that formation away.

It comes down to the role of the Werfer not being needed. Ost needs area denial arty, not pinpoint accurate arty (which the Werfer fails to do aswell at times).

The LeFH doesnt really help much any longer since the reload overnerf. And Ost crutching on Tigers to compensate for non existant T4 means you cant go for the LeFH in the first place.
8 Jan 2020, 12:47 PM
#44
avatar of Katitof

Posts: 17914 | Subs: 8

The problem with the Panzerwerfer is its limited area of effect. It is designed to have a chance of wiping 1 unit. Nothing more. Now if you want to play mind games with your enemy (targeting vs dodging) the werfer will be a failure more often than any other arty since you only cover that small area. In the end the Werfer is dodged more easily.

Secondly the Werfer has to deal with large Soviet formations (6 men crewsand sqauds) that cover huge areas. A Werfer will not push that formation away.

It comes down to the role of the Werfer not being needed. Ost needs area denial arty, not pinpoint accurate arty (which the Werfer fails to do aswell at times).

The LeFH doesnt really help much any longer since the reload overnerf. And Ost crutching on Tigers to compensate for non existant T4 means you cant go for the LeFH in the first place.

You seem to be under some weird, incomprehensible impression that werfer 10 scattering rockets land in area tighter then a single con squad spread, which isn't exactly that wide(comparable to gren spread on neutral ground).

Are you sure you are talking about the correct unit?
We are talking about ost rocket arty, not mortar halftruck, just to get you back on track.
8 Jan 2020, 13:02 PM
#45
avatar of Butcher

Posts: 1217

Another contentless post from Katitof. You know exactly what I meant. Formation describes multiple squads in an area. A Werfer cant push those away. On top of that those squads are larger and can take more hits.
8 Jan 2020, 13:22 PM
#46
avatar of Katitof

Posts: 17914 | Subs: 8

Another contentless post from Katitof. You know exactly what I meant. Formation describes multiple squads in an area. A Werfer cant push those away. On top of that those squads are larger and can take more hits.

No, formation describes squads spread.
Always did.

Use the terminology in correct context or explain what you're talking about if you want to use well established terminology to describe completely different stuff.

And now you made me sound like vipper(except for the context part, he still figures that word out).
8 Jan 2020, 14:48 PM
#47
avatar of Musti

Posts: 203

"Werfer spreads out too much and doesnt do anything at long range"
"Werfer is too accurate and can't deny an area"

fucking WHAT?
8 Jan 2020, 15:02 PM
#48
avatar of thedarkarmadillo

Posts: 5279

jump backJump back to quoted post8 Jan 2020, 14:48 PMMusti
"Werfer spreads out too much and doesnt do anything at long range"
"Werfer is too accurate and can't deny an area"

fucking WHAT?

Its literally an "I don't know how to use it" thread
8 Jan 2020, 16:38 PM
#49
avatar of Widerstreit

Posts: 1392

Artillerieoffizier and the game is yours xD
8 Jan 2020, 17:26 PM
#50
avatar of ZeroZeroNi

Posts: 1563

Artillerieoffizier and the game is yours xD
Make the officer non doc then we can talk.
8 Jan 2020, 17:30 PM
#51
avatar of T.R. Stormjäger

Posts: 3588 | Subs: 3

Make the officer non doc then we can talk.


LMAO
8 Jan 2020, 17:35 PM
#52
avatar of Cardboard Tank

Posts: 978

jump backJump back to quoted post8 Jan 2020, 14:48 PMMusti
"Werfer spreads out too much and doesnt do anything at long range"
"Werfer is too accurate and can't deny an area"

fucking WHAT?
That's no contradiction. It is accurate enough to fail at area denial. It is inaccurate enough to fail at its role as accurate artillery. Its performance is in between and it is the worst heavy artillery in the game. Instead of answering to the famous forum troll Katitoff, we might want to take a look at the points players are bringing up.
8 Jan 2020, 17:51 PM
#53
avatar of Widerstreit

Posts: 1392

Make the officer non doc then we can talk.


lol no.

But I am for a Panzerwerfer-buff, give it a low-angle barrage with 70 range. That should be enough buff.
8 Jan 2020, 18:02 PM
#54
avatar of Hannibal
Senior Moderator Badge

Posts: 3113 | Subs: 2

That's no contradiction. It is accurate enough to fail at area denial. It is inaccurate enough to fail at its role as accurate artillery. Its performance is in between and it is the worst heavy artillery in the game. Instead of answering to the famous forum troll Katitoff, we might want to take a look at the points players are bringing up.


If it's too accurate short range and too inaccurate long range, you have a perfect sweet spot in between for every situation that you need to deal with.

The PWerfer is no area denial tool, it is not designed for that. For area denial, there must be some kind of damage over time, like flames or multiple volleys. The PWerfer is a long range sniper and wipe machine that takes out key units of the opponent. For this purpose is can also react way quicker than the Katy, since only the battery needs to turn which is quicker than the vehicle.
8 Jan 2020, 18:04 PM
#55
avatar of Hannibal
Senior Moderator Badge

Posts: 3113 | Subs: 2



lol no.

But I am for a Panzerwerfer-buff, give it a low-angle barrage with 70 range. That should be enough buff.

A low angle firing mode would basically guarantee a wipe every time you use it.
8 Jan 2020, 18:17 PM
#56
avatar of Widerstreit

Posts: 1392


A low angle firing mode would basically guarantee a wipe every time you use it.


I would nerf the fire-rate of Panzerwerfer too, not only because it looks stupid. As it is now, it would be OP, that is true.

Edit: beside, I think it wouldn't be more OP than Katjusha, because rockets have worse stats. BUT it would punish blobbers.

The hole game is only blobbing. Cancer every game showing the bad fraction and unit design.
8 Jan 2020, 21:23 PM
#57
avatar of IncendiaryRounds:)

Posts: 1527

Permanently Banned
Allied only players are only on the receiving end of the werfer. They don't know what kind of micro it takes to make the werfer actually effective. I think a slightly lower cooldown is all that the werfer needs.
8 Jan 2020, 22:24 PM
#58
avatar of Hannibal
Senior Moderator Badge

Posts: 3113 | Subs: 2



I would nerf the fire-rate of Panzerwerfer too, not only because it looks stupid. As it is now, it would be OP, that is true.

Edit: beside, I think it wouldn't be more OP than Katjusha, because rockets have worse stats. BUT it would punish blobbers.

The hole game is only blobbing. Cancer every game showing the bad fraction and unit design.


Blobbing heavily depends on the game mode, but yes I agree that rocket artillery is and should be a prime counter for mid/late game blobbing.

I still dislike the idea though. The single rocket might be worse, but since they all come at the same time they annihilate everything inside the circle with higher effectiveness than 3-6 Katy rockets could. Ober the years the whole game has - fortunately - see a rebalance away from one shot wipes to more spread out damage as we could see on especially heavy tanks and mortars. Even if the CD of the Panzerwerfer would be increased, the low angle fire would still be a pretty safe wipe with no opportunity to react towards it or somehow counter it. This is in my eyes bad game design and should be avoided.
8 Jan 2020, 23:57 PM
#59
avatar of Grim

Posts: 1096

For this purpose is can also react way quicker than the Katy, since only the battery needs to turn which is quicker than the vehicle.


Honestly one of the most understated benefits of this unit.
9 Jan 2020, 00:00 AM
#60
avatar of Mr Carmine

Posts: 1289



Blobbing heavily depends on the game mode, but yes I agree that rocket artillery is and should be a prime counter for mid/late game blobbing.

I still dislike the idea though. The single rocket might be worse, but since they all come at the same time they annihilate everything inside the circle with higher effectiveness than 3-6 Katy rockets could. Ober the years the whole game has - fortunately - see a rebalance away from one shot wipes to more spread out damage as we could see on especially heavy tanks and mortars. Even if the CD of the Panzerwerfer would be increased, the low angle fire would still be a pretty safe wipe with no opportunity to react towards it or somehow counter it. This is in my eyes bad game design and should be avoided.


Exactly. 100% agreed.

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