Absolutely.
However, we don't have the luxury of changing everything at the same time. This is why we need to prioritize changes.
How about prioritizing on don't fix what ain't broke (Stuka health) and ain't nobody asked to fix in the first place.
First we fix Brits, then we fix USF and. Finally, if relic still gives us the option to make a 2nd pass over OKW we continue with changing the Stuka and nerfing King Tiger.
And if you get Community approval.
If you have trouble realising why Stuka is OP (and will remain OP), you are probably misusing it. Look up on youtube about how to properly aim the stuka.
If you have trouble realizing after your first failed attempt that it ain't gonna work to shove down your own playstyle on everybody's else throat, just as it did not work the first time, the better for you. The feedback is entirely negative on this change. Look on COH forum and reviews of what happened the last time you tried to ignore that and perhaps you will find it enlightening and save you a lot of trouble of attempting it again.
You are perhaps misinterpreting the feedback, so let me translate it to you: we still ain't buying into saying one thing and using it a false pretext to do something entirely different.
In this case, claiming there is any kind of correlation between the Stuka's allaged pinpoint accuracy and its durability. There is not. All this does is making the most expensive rocket arty that works closest to the frontline crap easy to destroy for lazy Allied players. If you have trouble neutralizing the current Stuka, then perhaps look up some replays because its a play style issue.
If you actually want to fix the Stuka's wiping potential and make it follow the same rules as other rocket arty, then do so. If you can't (or won't), do not touch it because the only thing that's gonna happen is that you break it and along with it, the chances that the DBP could ever go live.
Personally, the three primary goals for the DBP is:
- Force all 5 factions to use a combination of units to achieve their goals at each stage in the game (e.g., no late-game Vet5 Volks spam > all)
- Make all factions require comparable micro input at all stages in the game, so that there's actual depth involved (i.e., getting to Vet5 should not mean that you no longer have to micro your infantry engagements)
- Adapt faction core/commanders properly, so that each faction has at least 3 strong and valid commanders to choose from, every game (i.e., no Armor Company every single game, just because you picked USF)
Trouble is, making the Stuka even more vulnerable than it already is does not serve these primarily goals in any way. |
We need less FRP in my opinion and not more. A proper 251 can, in fact make the FRP redundant,
The trouble is that the very it is supposed to counter, large infantry blobs, is the very counter to a moving 251 combined arms group itself. Simply concentrate automatic fire on the 251, and it has to pull back as the thing is squishy as hell, unlike its US and SOV counterpart for absolutely no reason.
Having the 251 leaves you one MG less, one Gren less and delayed armor. In other words, it promotes varied gameplay, more options, more tactical opportunities. Sadly as it is its just a waste of resources unless you upgrade it for a flame halftrack. The base version has to offer more if it is to work as blob counter and force allied counterplay other than just more rifleman with more bars etc. |
I wonder when this thing gets some attention in the balance patch.
The 251 is supposed to be an an achor for fledling OST infantry, a mobile base they can rally around, reinforce their tiny squads and to serve as a tool to fix OST's biggest issue - its very specialized units and defenses can fold like a house of card if you damage one element. Which is fairly easy, as they do not have FRPs.
They are now even harder pressed by buffed Conscripts, Penal hordes and the double BAR/Brens.
The base issue is that unlinke any other halftrack in the game, its actually far from resistant. Any sort of automatic fire - which Allied infantry has in the spades by mid game, as well as now widespread access to AT weapons in all factions - can drive it away, since it has neither the DPS Its armor is far below than its Soviet counterpart, which does the same thing, and has more DPS. The corse issue is that since all WFA infantry gets automatic weapons in spades, they can very easily sap its health and drive it away or even destroy it with ease.
Armore values.
Sdkfz 251 armor 9 / 4.5
DPS far/near cc 4.7 / 17
USF / SOV M5
28.5 / 20
7.5 / 17.5
It needs be taken to the same armor level as other halftrucks (i.e. mostly resistant to small arms), so that it can function in the OST's armory as a infantry/field presence buff.
|
Every other artillery in the game, including Katyusha and Panzerwerfer which are squishy as fuck have to move to the frontlines to deal any damage.
Irrelevelant. Low risk / low reward or high risk / high reward. Your choice.
Walking stuka has the luxury at firing from max range, even in the fog of war, without this affecting its pinpoint accuracy.
Allrightie then, make it follow the same rules as other rocket arty then. Make it spread more, be effected by the fog of war, be effected by range.
OOPS. If I were to really solve I perceive to be the problem, I cannot blob anymore with double BARs behind Stonewall Jackson, since random spread Stuka is uneffected by sidestepping the blob... so let's come up with something totally unrelated...
Therefore, it's undue for the walking stuka to be any more durable than the forementioned artillery.
Because fck logic.
|
Cut range of the Katy to 120 then. Surely if they are to be equal in health pool for some so far undislosed reason, then surely they can be equal in range, too.
I am also curious about suggested methods to stop suicide T-34s wrecking your Stuka in one go. 80 fuel is nothing to the SOVIET in team games, but 50+100 fuel is still a heck of lot for OKW. |
Um, no. Werfers and Katys benefit from being closer to the frontline because it reduces rocket scatter. Stukas have pinpoint accuracy always and don't have fog of war scatter penalties so there is literally no need to ever fire from anything but max range.
You are contradict yourself while fully admitting that it is an indeed beneficial option for other rocket arty to be close the frontline (and hardly very dangerous for the CalliOP). They can choose to sit back and bleed or come forward and wipe.
If there is a problem with the Stuka accuracy - which is a double edged sword anyway, as its easy to evade just by sidestepping or demonstrating your ultimate micro skills by NOT lining up your support teams in one line if you know there is/could be a Stuka nearby - fix the ACCURACY, not the durability.
You do not amputate a guys leg to cure his headache.
Simply make it have the same random rocket spread and . I guess this obvious solution curiously does not come to the mind of the mod team simply because with randomly dispersed rockets, double BAR/Bren blobbing would be suddenly far more dangerous since nobody can predict where the Stuka lands...
It is btw typical of the flawed approach of the balance mod - one one hand, Jackson receive massive health buffs, the heavy TDs receive damage nerfs which results that they cant 2-shot mediums or Jacksons anymore, nor they can one shot lights and halftrucks, but somehow the OKW gets the exact opposite treatment and somehow its perfectly fine that a 100 fuel short ranged rocket arty would be one shotted by any tank - or a lucky Katy or CalliOP salvo as all rockets do 80 damage each. Heck even mortar pits have the chance to wreck it.
Even more rocket arty spam behind TD wall is what I predict. |
Stuka doesnt need to go to the frontlines in order to be used to its full potential, so please
Right, it doesnt need to go the frontline, because its already there. There is a called in the game called RANGE, you know?
Its optional to go to frontlines with Werfers and Katys. High Risk/High Reward. Its a CHOICE. Theres is no such option with the Stuka, it always needs to be close. |
I feel sorry KAPPA
Well I feel sorry for the balance patch as well, it looked promising until the same BS ideas that already failed once and rejected once will be rejected twice in a row.
Good news is, you can still play your mod as much as you want with your closest friends. |
Its a somewhat fun commander with flamethrower to the extreme, which, at least in theory, should be useful in urban enviroment.
In practice however, the commander simply does not work.
Only the Sturmpio flamethrowers are of some use, Salvage is... well its there, the unique call in, the Hetzer is one of the most useless units of the game, as comes too late, vulnerable to any kind of armor, has all the problems of casemate tank and the unit is just meh in general.
The rest of the abilities are just weird or useless. Recoup lossess seems to be out of place for this commander, how would it synergise with.. flame weapons and flame tanks? And why waste munition on the off map Stuka flame attack, when u have the same thing for 100 fuel and without warning from the Mechanized truck for example?
It could be redeemed as a heavily urban combat focused commander, but then it needs to the tools to do that. |
And when your stuka got attack the last time in teamgames? Almost never. Until you are losing the whole game.
That would mean the nerfing of its health to be a loose-100-fuel-to-one-shot nerf is again, well, unwarranted, since as you say, it almost never gets attacked anyway, right?
Stuarts can hunt them down really nice already. Engine block shot and its doomed. Its also very unlikely to get away from a medium if it finds it but at least there is a chance. There are possible countes already. Its health ain't broken, there no need to fix it. |