OST Grens

I have an idea. Lets make a commander that could give you an option to bolster grens. We could call it something like German infantry doctrine. It could be a free commander as well. That would give the people an option to use their support and utility focused inf to be upgraded to strong mainline inf while retaining other upgrades from basic teching.

Maybe this will stop people from crying in this thread about brits getting a callin mortar.

I have an idea. Lets make a commander that could give you an option to bolster grens. We could call it something like German infantry doctrine. It could be a free commander as well. That would give the people an option to use their support and utility focused inf to be upgraded to strong mainline inf while retaining other upgrades from basic teching.

Maybe this will stop people from crying in this thread about brits getting a callin mortar.

Using commanders to try and solve core design faults within a faction is simply short sighted and only leads to very limited meta. eg panic puma.

I think Grenadiers are fine.

The issue is mainly the Brits. The "Bolster Squad Package" which is like a weapon upgrade for everyone, is cost effective, comes early. Maybe they should halt it for more later. Change something because Brits usually do have the upper hand.

OR

Give indivdual upgrades for a to Bolster Squad similarly to the Wehrmacht "German Infantry Doctrine". This will fix issues especially what OKW suffers from since they get easily outmatched in the beginning.

(Depends heavily on map also, if it is urban, lots of buildings, Brits dominate).

...

Here is how I also see it

Bolster Squad costs ammo (60 ammo or less), limited to 1 Bren (45 ammo) only

Without Bolster upgrade, can get 2 Brens.


It will increase diversity, either going for more durability or more firepower. Diversity is important. I think this is what needs changing. No buffs required personally for Grens, just nerf the UKF Tommies specifically. Something needs amends

Be interesting to see what blister tied behind anvil (any maybe a 3rd weapon slot in hammer? Idk)

Using commanders to try and solve core design faults within a faction is simply short sighted and only leads to very limited meta. eg panic puma.

Its not a design fault. Ost has two tiers of infantry - grens and pgrens. Somewhat like cons and penals for soviets. If you want to use your lower tier units as strong mainline inf you need to to make it a dedicated choice (using a commander). Same as cons can't keep up with other mainline inf. Ost has other great tools to win fights that everyone is forgetting and want to make them strong in every aspect.

Its not a design fault. Ost has two tiers of infantry - grens and pgrens. Somewhat like cons and penals for soviets. If you want to use your lower tier units as strong mainline inf you need to to make it a dedicated choice (using a commander). Same as cons can't keep up with other mainline inf. Ost has other great tools to win fights that everyone is forgetting and want to make them strong in every aspect.

This is theory is simply flawed. Penal can be the backbone of your army even stock. PGs can not simply because they come much later.

This is theory is simply flawed. Penal can be the backbone of your army even stock. PGs can not simply because they come much later.

Its still 2 tiers of infantry.
They simply have different timing and roles.
'Somewhat like' does not mean 'identical'.
You're attempting too much mental gymnastics to fit it into your false narrative.

Nothing in his post is inherently wrong and its not theory, its a fact.

It might come as a shock to you, but your personal opinions are not cemented facts and what others write are also facts as a times.

(psst, that bonus is all weapon upgrades and grenades are free by default, locked behind time gate only instead of side costs, its also additional tier with units above "T3" level mediums)

oh..you mean like the OKW has? so the ost has a "great UNIQUE" which isnt this great like you know:
- 5vet lvl
- 6models squads
- tank crews
- base arty
- etc etc

you must be really intersting when you think that getting lmgs after tech is a UNIQUE. And sov has the same tech lvl like ost has....what are you talk about my friend?

i talked about a UNIQUE....cant u understand this words you can read here??

There is no way Grens are going to be updated at this point of the game. 1 v 1 Grens are somewhat balanced but not in team games. The devs tried to please the Axis crowd with commander gimmick for 5 man squad and that is the best we can get no matter how much theory crafting we do here.

Why not just buff MG42 upgrade and increase price. It should be the best MG in game since it is the most iconic, "buzz saw", deadliest, unparalleled right?

Since it is during Later war period 1944, weapon acquirement was difficult as many of their factories were lost to bombings. Make MG unparallel to any other and cost more.
______

3 OPTIONS


Buff either accuracy or damage of MG42.
Increase cost to around 70 ammo, accordingly to its buff.

If they can not get survivability, then give them instead the ability to stay in combat longer through firepower.


OR

When behind cover with MG guy only a default ability, it becomes more accurate (guy with MG only), bursts longer. Bonuses for the gren who wields the MG42.

Since it is more of a defensive unit, it would make sense.

OR

"Bolster Weapon Package", costs like 150 manpower and 35 fuel. You are able to get an additional MG42, meaning you can get 2 MG42 for Grenadiers. It is most likely that it will occur only during late game. No buffs for MG42, still costs 60 ammo. Make that this an option maybe?

What do you guys think?

Respectfully spreaking, @balanced_gamer stop asking for buffs/reworks for every unit of axis. You bring more noise than solutions into the forums. Not every axis units is UP or ineffective, only a few overlooked ones.
If you really want to improve the game take a moment to hear people with more experience and understand the way they think, trust me, they invested so much more time than any of us with the game and they know a lot of stuff

Its still 2 tiers of infantry.
They simply have different timing and roles.
'Somewhat like' does not mean 'identical'.
You're attempting too much mental gymnastics to fit it into your false narrative.

Nothing in his post is inherently wrong and its not theory, its a fact.

It might come as a shock to you, but your personal opinions are not cemented facts and what others write are also facts as a times.

Oh, I'm sorry, I didn't know 5min pgrens can be used as mainline infantry (vs 1min penals)? EVERYONE SHOULD KNOW: Katitof thinks pgrens are ENTIRELY an optional unit in Ost so it wouldn't hurt if we remove the unit altogether. His reasoning: nobody uses them, hence they're not needed. Well we should apply that logic to all units. Instead of buffing UP allied units that nobody uses, we should just delete it since allies are fine without it.

I mean, he is not wrong, most of the time ded Grens are replaced with more Grens instead of PGs. As they got more utility and are cheaper too.

Using commanders to try and solve core design faults within a faction is simply short sighted and only leads to very limited meta. eg panic puma.

Lol tell that to brits and usf.

Ost Grens are fine. Real problem or problems are Allied armor inf wipe Capability ,Allied Indirect fire or Terminator Bren sections Etc. In WW2; german army were mostly outnumbered...so stock 5 man upgrade is just ridiculus even for commender upgrade. Maybe recieved accuracy can be adjusted when in cover at 3 stars.

I mean, he is not wrong, most of the time ded Grens are replaced with more Grens instead of PGs. As they got more utility and are cheaper too.

Yes, it's true, rarely do people get pgrens. But u missed the point, Katitof wants to delete UP units instead of fixing them. Maybe we should just delete the maxim then? Did i hear people say IS2 UP? Delete IS2!

Lol tell that to brits and usf.

Even the All Might Soviets need to fill in the gaps with doctrinal infantry and/or armor.
To the point they are trying to make Airborne Guards action heroes so the Commander is actually an atractive option.

Oh, I'm sorry, I didn't know 5min pgrens can be used as mainline infantry (vs 1min penals)? EVERYONE SHOULD KNOW: Katitof thinks pgrens are ENTIRELY an optional unit in Ost so it wouldn't hurt if we remove the unit altogether. His reasoning: nobody uses them, hence they're not needed. Well we should apply that logic to all units. Instead of buffing UP allied units that nobody uses, we should just delete it since allies are fine without it.

Penals have their own issues for sure but they are made strong to make up for the lack of support (I think they need nerfed to tho) but pgrens will always have access to an MG and a halftrack which makes them fairly decent when supported. But that's it right? Ost is supposed to be used in combined arms. Support makes every unit in their roster shine and alone they feel underwhelming. They are a much better designed faction because of it.

Respectfully spreaking, @balanced_gamer stop asking for buffs/reworks for every unit of axis. You bring more noise than solutions into the forums. Not every axis units is UP or ineffective, only a few overlooked ones.
If you really want to improve the game take a moment to hear people with more experience and understand the way they think, trust me, they invested so much more time than any of us with the game and they know a lot of stuff

Respectfully speaking also. I do not believe axis to be the only faction that needs to be looked over, allies I think in general require some changes also but not as much in comparison since axis do generally experience slightly more problems.

Grens are fine generally, no need for buff, it is just the allies accessibility to better overall AI vehicles, have a better tendency in wiping squads, not all but more often than not. The mortars on allies are generally better because of its increased damage the USF howizter (Default which I think is the best) and 120mm Mortar (SU doctrine) and Mortar Emplacement UKF (default). They all vary in performance but they potentially have a better capacity in taking down squads with its devastating firepower.

I mean Osteehr does have Brummbar which is great but is mainly accessible late game which is balanced. Ostwind is under-performing, needs to be looked over.

Pzgrens may need a decrease in price because it initally drops like flies, so a little compensation in that sense would be great (should cost around 320 manpower or less), especially due to the lack of utility is another factor. Pzgrens Vet however is perfect. Veterancy issues is not a problem for Osteehr at all except Ostwind personally, has anyone every gotten vet 2 or 3 before, cuz I have not. It performs badly also cuz no one picks it generally.

If those things are fixed the osteehr units mentioned, there is really then nothing to complain about.

USF Stuart may need some improvements/adjustments I believe and a few other elements. Riflemen may instead change its accessibility to AT nade to vet 0 instead of vet 1.

SU make the Molotov price and AT nade cheaper since it is accessible only to Conscripts. Would be nice for conscripts to get upgrade like "Guard Rifle Infantry" 1 lmg upgrade alternative.

UKF is fairly strong and well developed. Are there any problems that I am not aware of UKF?

OKW needs to look at Kubelwagen (already issues stated) and Luchs (a bit on accuracy and supressive ability should come a bit earlier like vet 2 or 3). Veterancy issues is experienced amongst quite some units, mostly Kubel and support weapons.

These are some problems that I have mentioned, there is most likely some more things which I have not yet stated.

Personally what I find annoying is playing a (any) faction to have something that is accessible but either does not perform as it should and it has certain issues. That applies for all factions. Just some have more problems than others!!

The problem is depending on the game mode you play depends on how useful you feel some units are.

The argument to give conscripts an LMG upgrade like the DP-28 has been as old as time itself. But a very durable squad with 6 men, and receives great vet bonuses as well as accuracy increases, has good utility and is dirt cheap and acts as "in the field " reinforcement sort of gets silly when you allow them to also upgrade their guns to add more DPS.

Soviets have access to Guards and Shocks, as well as the KV-8, and these are all good at wiping infantry.

What are the options for OST? G43's, an extra man now (with german infantry) Storm Troopers (which are still 4 man and are meh).

You really can't make conscripts any better, it would be too imbalanced. If you think cons aren't good, I assume these are 4v4 matches because cons are great for what they can do and what they cost.

I'd fix Grens by fixing their veterancy. I recently had a game where I managed 2 vet4-5 obersoldate as OKW and I had 3 M18 Scotts firing at me. I was sweating bullets, but they missed so much I had to assume it was the stacking received accuracy. If those obers were vet0, they would of been dead the moment 3 Scotts targetted them (and that feels bad, but hey that's necessary as USF has no non-doctrinal rock arty ).

So I'd give Grens a -29% received accuracy at vet3. You don't need to give them 5 guys, adjust their cost, or anything. Grenades will still be lethal and so will indirect fire when it does hit the small 4 man squad that has a hard time spreading out.

I find Vet 1 useless for Grens. Medkit is really a utility that is hardly used since it costs only ammo.
Remove it for
improved received accuracy
or
just increase in rate of fire
or
increase accuracy a bit.

Medkit I feel is pretty useless it is not a cost effective option. It think that would be a good enough fix, change vet 1 to something else instead.