did shock troops need the buff?

Jump back to quoted post13 Mar 2019, 20:35 PMStug life

jli are still op close range too as the 75%crit is too strong

Jump back to quoted post13 Mar 2019, 20:51 PMShadowLinkX37

Pretty sure that'll be the 3 kar98s at 16 damage a shot, since the scoped G43 can hit shit at that range.

Jump back to quoted post13 Mar 2019, 21:24 PMStug life

it makes up with faster reload and fire time

Jump back to quoted post13 Mar 2019, 19:41 PMmiragefla

You keep throwing out the word without seemingly to know its connotations. How are Shocks OP in any form even now? They still don't want to fight at mid-range as it means other units can be brought up to support versus them.

They are a dedicated AI squad that needs to be positioned and cannot be A-moved like LMG units. Sure, they can 1v1 most other squads, but everything else hardcounters them its easier to keep at range than it is for them to close distance, even with smoke.

Jump back to quoted post13 Mar 2019, 23:01 PMthedarkarmadillo

Eeeeeeh shocks and guards do compete because they CAN'T exist together. When guards weren't viable neither were any of those commanders and before this shock buff shock commanders suffered a similar fate. They compete directly with one another because you have to chose one or the other. Much like brit hammer and anvil design actually

Jump back to quoted post13 Mar 2019, 23:37 PMVipper

No you do not have to choose one or the other. There 21 Soviet commanders and 10 of them do not have either.

And the "compete" logic is simply flawed, since it has to do with diversity and not balance.

Actually there is balance which has to with how unit and faction compare with each other and there diversity which has to do with how units with in the same faction compare to one another.

Lets say we buff Shock to the same power level of Guards making them equally cost efficient but now they compete with PPsh conscripts so now we have to buff PPsh conscripts because no one uses them but then we have to buff penals because no one uses and you end up with OP faction.

In the end you have messed up balance vs other faction in order to fix a diversity issue.

Jump back to quoted post14 Mar 2019, 00:05 AMthedarkarmadillo

Look, I'm not saying that shocks need more adjustment but they DO compete. If they are equally attractive THEN we have diversity, if not then we don't. Soviet have 21 commanders, how many have shocks and guards? How many are similar enough that the choice of one or the other dictates putting it into your card?

The isu commanders for example, I personally much prefer the one with shocks because of vehicle detection BUT guards are a great unit so I usually go that way instead of the cqb unit in a long ranged combat game. They don't fight each other but are competing. Their balance is independent of one another but their attractiveness is not.

Jump back to quoted post13 Mar 2019, 23:25 PMCorsin

The only thing i find mental about shocks is the short fuse on their nade. Its like an impact bomb, if you dont catch the guy throwing it as he throws it, by the time the countdown pops up you just lost 4-5 guys.

Jump back to quoted post14 Mar 2019, 01:32 AMaerafield

Grenadier rifle nades must give you nightmares then

Jump back to quoted post14 Mar 2019, 01:46 AMCorsin

Nah they have a nice loud sound and send a mail note warning of its arrival 3 days prior to it landing.

Jump back to quoted post14 Mar 2019, 01:46 AMCorsin

Nah they have a nice loud sound and send a mail note warning of its arrival 3 days prior to it landing.

Jump back to quoted post14 Mar 2019, 13:35 PMelchino7

Shame that we had like a 2/3 year old bug which removes the animation and sound queues are unreliable since game release.

Shocks must be one of the most telegraphed nades in the game, because they must run towards you in order to be effective. They also don't have 100dmg nuke nades such as PGs, Obers, Falls, Commandos, etc which have almost double the lethal radius compared to normal 80dmg nades.
If you find shock nades mental, not sure what would you call reacting to "cloaked unit" throwing short fused nuke nades to be.

Jump back to quoted post12 Mar 2019, 01:26 AMVuther

(Resists urge to add poll options I DON'T KNOW and CAN YOU REPEAT THE QUESTION)

I've got nothing else to add, I don't think I've used them enough since the buff to think something useful.

Jump back to quoted post14 Mar 2019, 15:36 PMWingZero

Shocks needed a buff because they are VERY niche type of infantry. At least paratroops with Thompson or Rangers can fight mid range.

Jump back to quoted post14 Mar 2019, 15:43 PMVipper

You are comparing shocks with units that are come later are, more expensive, do not have smoke grenades and require weapon upgrades. This is rather misleading. And if that was the case the could come with 4 PPsh +2 SVTs similar to paras.

In the end of the day they where facing axis unit and there very few infatry that could stand up against them.

Jump back to quoted post14 Mar 2019, 15:49 PMWingZero

What do you mean by last sentence? Axis have access to PGs as Wher which the timing is somewhat similar. I think OKW probably will have problems "depending" on map and how well MGs are microed but late game Obers wreck shocks both with LMG and STGs (doctrine vs doctrine).