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russian armor

Motherland HMGs rework

4 Jan 2019, 14:27 PM
#21
avatar of thedarkarmadillo

Posts: 5279

jump backJump back to quoted post4 Jan 2019, 06:15 AMBaba
Change nothing - increase price. 5 maxims per soviet in a 2v2 are enough. give them 5 dshks instead and i will uninstall
it is by definition a "support weapon" and you want to treat it as the mbt. just stahp, please.. for the love of Allah! iwant them old demo charges back


For a support weapon to be a support weapon it needs to a) be capable of supporting infantry (its not) and b) have infantry worth supporting (it doesn't)

The maxim is spammed because it's bad on its own and if you don't go t1 you don't have infantry capable of doing anything at all. It's a loop unfortunately. Another layer to the death loop in a sense
4 Jan 2019, 14:53 PM
#22
avatar of wongtp

Posts: 647


That's rather obviously out of question as 6 man squads are soviet theme.
Plus, it would really be overpowering to make up for deathloop, which is impossible to remove, so that's a bad idead from get go.


wasnt a serious idea from the get go.

it is exactly this 6man squad theme that brings so much crap to soviet teams. its either they are too good or too bad.

just make it so at 4man with better stats to compensate and i swear to god, people will wish they had the 6man tanky maxims than a good proper mg42 equal that pins grenadiers, JLIs, obers in 1 or 2 bursts from range.

4 Jan 2019, 14:57 PM
#23
avatar of gbem

Posts: 1979

Ill take a 4 man mg42 over a 6 man maxim any day... that maxim wont suppress jli or obers fast enough to save it from a deathloop... the 4 man mg42 can and will
4 Jan 2019, 15:07 PM
#24
avatar of elchino7
Senior Moderator Badge

Posts: 8154 | Subs: 2

Besides the fact that we are trying to over-engineer a solution to the problem (also don't agree with the proposal) i think i should clarify the point below.

-Dshk HMG has e better weapon profile to become unique in the actual game scheme. Being said this i suggest the following rework:
Rework Dshk as a "self protected" HMG with high calliber munition. Aestetically it already has a shield cover, when it sets up it gets green cover in the direction its aiming. This could help to deal frontal assaults (as they happen with maxims) and also become a posible way to hold off LVs as Dshk has big calliber and an ability dedicated to that.
Since Dshk has its firing arc so narrow, flanking it is possible and also necessary since it could resist so much frontally. They wont be spammed because it would take a bu**load of them to cover big areas.


If it's meant to work as AT guns, i'm sorry to say that we shouldn't rely on a function which is completely bugged.

First, due to size and crew spreading, the only one benefiting from the cover should be the operator of the weapon.
Secondly, while targeting may seem random at most times, the priority should be against the crew members instead of the operator unless the are no other valid targets.
Thirdly, as i said before there's a problem with how AT gun cover work. They basically don't give cover 90% of the time and that 10% requires specific scenarios for it to happen.

https://www.coh2.org/topic/66776/at-weapons-for-okw/post/646618
4 Jan 2019, 15:12 PM
#25
avatar of d0ggY
Senior Caster Badge

Posts: 823 | Subs: 3

Don't rework my beloved maxims, unless you make them 10 seconds build time and 240mp for same performance !
4 Jan 2019, 15:39 PM
#26
avatar of ProxyFox

Posts: 8

Suppression buff is all it needs, I hate axis infantry charging maxim without being suppressed and killing the gunner which cause the death loop
5 Jan 2019, 15:27 PM
#27
avatar of griezell

Posts: 125

have the maxim and maby the mortart be able to upgrade to duska and 120 with a fixed cost. lets say as an example 200 mp 50 ammo and 15 feul and then u have the upgrade for the rest of the game
5 Jan 2019, 15:28 PM
#28
avatar of griezell

Posts: 125

Suppression buff is all it needs, I hate axis infantry charging maxim without being suppressed and killing the gunner which cause the death loop


mg42 supresses almost instantly and they can supress more then 1 unit if they are together.

maxim supresses maby after the last burst and only 1 unit!
5 Jan 2019, 18:42 PM
#29
avatar of LoopDloop

Posts: 3053

IMO this suggestion is a lot more convoluted than needed. I think maxim just needs a suppression buff since it has a smaller arc than other mgs and doesn't really do more damage or anything, even taking into account that it's six men.
6 Jan 2019, 03:39 AM
#30
avatar of MakiesKurisu

Posts: 130

How about making it an offensive weapons rather than a defensive one. Better dmg(like vickers), less supperssion, less set up time. Just a big gun with 6-men and cons to reinforce the crew.
6 Jan 2019, 09:57 AM
#31
avatar of mortiferum

Posts: 571

How about making it an offensive weapons rather than a defensive one. Better dmg(like vickers), less supperssion, less set up time. Just a big gun with 6-men and cons to reinforce the crew.


That was what it was before the nerf.

A 240mp, 6 man, instant (practically instant) set up cheese weapon that pins OKW into the base in under 3 minutes. No thanks.


*Then again those were also the days of volks shreck blob, call in KV-8s and other horrible things.
6 Jan 2019, 10:40 AM
#32
avatar of MakiesKurisu

Posts: 130



That was what it was before the nerf.

A 240mp, 6 man, instant (practically instant) set up cheese weapon that pins OKW into the base in under 3 minutes. No thanks.


*Then again those were also the days of volks shreck blob, call in KV-8s and other horrible things.


not exactly, they got better supperssion then. What I mean is adjusting them to a mainline inf with an arc of fire.
6 Jan 2019, 10:54 AM
#33
avatar of mortiferum

Posts: 571



not exactly, they got better supperssion then. What I mean is adjusting them to a mainline inf with an arc of fire.


So the idea is to make them a LMG squad that requires set up, and deal minor/ targeted suppression rather than "HMG level/ Area" suppression?

If thats the case it sounds quite cool but what would prevent a death blob of them roaming around dropping models?
6 Jan 2019, 12:25 PM
#34
avatar of griezell

Posts: 125

id say maxim supresses at the 1st burst 1 unit.

mg42 can supress the whole blob but and the end of its full burst.

there is your balance
6 Jan 2019, 12:33 PM
#35
avatar of Lago

Posts: 3260

I think it needs to be decided what the acceptable minimum suppression for an HMG is, then set all HMGs to at least that. I think that's about MG34 level.

Making HMGs different is all well and good, but the super low suppression HMGs like the Vickers and Maxim aren't fit for purpose. An HMG needs to suppress well. There are plenty of other attributes (cost, armour piercing, arc width, bonus damage, abilities) you can dial up and down to make them different to each other.
6 Jan 2019, 13:30 PM
#36
avatar of Vipper

Posts: 13496 | Subs: 1

jump backJump back to quoted post6 Jan 2019, 12:33 PMLago
I think it needs to be decided what the acceptable minimum suppression for an HMG is, then set all HMGs to at least that. I think that's about MG34 level.

Making HMGs different is all well and good, but the super low suppression HMGs like the Vickers and Maxim aren't fit for purpose. An HMG needs to suppress well. There are plenty of other attributes (cost, armour piercing, arc width, bonus damage, abilities) you can dial up and down to make them different to each other.

Then all faction need similar tools do deal with HMG and similar mainline infantry.

HMG42 is better than other HMG by design.

Maxim could use have the vet 1 ability move to vet 0 and make it improve with each vet level.
6 Jan 2019, 15:18 PM
#37
avatar of distrofio

Posts: 2358

id say maxim supresses at the 1st burst 1 unit.

mg42 can supress the whole blob but and the end of its full burst.

there is your balance


This is not a Mg42/Maxim balance thread, pls stay on topic
The only reason i prupose maxims/Dshk reworks its to bring it par to other mgs in a unique and different way, i dont want maxim spam neither maxim trash
6 Jan 2019, 15:20 PM
#38
avatar of distrofio

Posts: 2358

jump backJump back to quoted post6 Jan 2019, 12:33 PMLago
I think it needs to be decided what the acceptable minimum suppression for an HMG is, then set all HMGs to at least that. I think that's about MG34 level.

Making HMGs different is all well and good, but the super low suppression HMGs like the Vickers and Maxim aren't fit for purpose. An HMG needs to suppress well. There are plenty of other attributes (cost, armour piercing, arc width, bonus damage, abilities) you can dial up and down to make them different to each other.

Actually, vickers deal so much damage because they dont suppress that much. If you garrison fight vickers-Mg42 the foremost will win. Maxim has also a ww1 design, it could get its damage bring up par to a vickers but with weaker crewman as it is already.
6 Jan 2019, 15:28 PM
#39
avatar of Widerstreit

Posts: 1392

I would really like to see the Maxim gets changed with Dshk and Maxim gets a buff instead.

Beside, the Dshk was the Standard MG of Russia?

6 Jan 2019, 15:40 PM
#40
avatar of Katitof

Posts: 17914 | Subs: 8



This is not a Mg42/Maxim balance thread, pls stay on topic
The only reason i prupose maxims/Dshk reworks its to bring it par to other mgs in a unique and different way, i dont want maxim spam neither maxim trash

Maxim was main HMG of soviets in WW2 up until 1943, when it started being replaced by SG-43 Goryunov.

DSHK was not primarily used as anti infantry HMG, but anti air one, that includes the double wheeled cart unfolding to a tripod we have in game, other then that it was used on multiple vehicles as anti aircraft gun.

Additional benefit of DSHK was, it ripped lightly armored vehicles to shreds.
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