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OKW needs some nerfs don’t you think?

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20 Nov 2018, 05:13 AM
#61
avatar of thedarkarmadillo

Posts: 5279

jump backJump back to quoted post20 Nov 2018, 04:58 AMGrumpy


OKW already seems a bit worse than OST, so why nerf it? It would make more sense to improve USF and UKF.

That's called power creep. Remember when volks were buffed to help stand against rifles forgetting that USF wasn't the only match up so relic did what they do and left conscripts as is and buffed the tits off penals who are now thrashing volks and grens alike? You keep buffing everything and the furthest back on the list becomes obsolete and in need of a buff.

UKF are getting snares, on a possibly 5 man 210mp unit that can arm AT. let's see where that leaves them in the realm of balance..
20 Nov 2018, 05:44 AM
#62
avatar of distrofio

Posts: 2358

Wonder what having Obers come out after a 2nd truck (first deployed and then second called in) would look like? Maybe require 2nd placed for the lmg. Could really help push the mid game and allow volks to take a hit and open up the potential for some combined forces


Even if two truck are needed to be deployed, its a change for OKW. Nowdays Obers come after the 15+30+15+120 = 180 Fuel cost mark, but if thw OKM player chooses for "infantry superiority" deploying T1 and T2, it would be 15+30+15+45 = 105 fuel (58% of original cost) at the expense of delaying the best AT tools in the faction, I.e. Jp4 and Panthers. But Obers should be trained at T0.
20 Nov 2018, 06:26 AM
#63
avatar of thedarkarmadillo

Posts: 5279



Even if two truck are needed to be deployed, its a change for OKW. Nowdays Obers come after the 15+30+15+120 = 180 Fuel cost mark, but if thw OKM player chooses for "infantry superiority" deploying T1 and T2, it would be 15+30+15+45 = 105 fuel (58% of original cost) at the expense of delaying the best AT tools in the faction, I.e. Jp4 and Panthers. But Obers should be trained at T0.


Oops forgot that detail. Yea. Build in t0 once a 2nd truck is built. Only thing I could see this being odd for is it might be a bit too soon with med truck. However med truck emphasis is on infantry and infantry support so maybe it's not so iffy? They are tough for sure but lacking AT and hitting the field right before lights could open a new dynamic to make okw mid game competative.
20 Nov 2018, 09:10 AM
#64
avatar of Grumpy

Posts: 1954


That's called power creep. Remember when volks were buffed to help stand against rifles forgetting that USF wasn't the only match up so relic did what they do and left conscripts as is and buffed the tits off penals who are now thrashing volks and grens alike? You keep buffing everything and the furthest back on the list becomes obsolete and in need of a buff.

UKF are getting snares, on a possibly 5 man 210mp unit that can arm AT. let's see where that leaves them in the realm of balance..


I don't mean buff all units. For example, my wish list for USF would be to undo the vet 3 RA nerf for rifles, undo the suppression nerf for the 50 cal, and do something so that AT guns don't get 1 or 2-shotted by a Stupa. I don't play UKF enough to have an opinion on them, but do think that the list should also be small (maybe even just the snares that you mentioned above).

The point that I was trying to make is that I like what Relic is doing now with the smaller, targeted patches and don't think that nerfing OKW as a whole will be helpful.
20 Nov 2018, 09:14 AM
#65
avatar of Vipper

Posts: 13496 | Subs: 1


That's called power creep. Remember when volks were buffed to help stand against rifles forgetting that USF wasn't the only match up so relic did what they do and left conscripts as is and buffed the tits off penals who are now thrashing volks and grens alike? You keep buffing everything and the furthest back on the list becomes obsolete and in need of a buff.

UKF are getting snares, on a possibly 5 man 210mp unit that can arm AT. let's see where that leaves them in the realm of balance..

That is why balancing should be done using one "benchmark" faction.
20 Nov 2018, 09:59 AM
#66
avatar of thedarkarmadillo

Posts: 5279

jump backJump back to quoted post20 Nov 2018, 09:10 AMGrumpy


I don't mean buff all units. For example, my wish list for USF would be to undo the vet 3 RA nerf for rifles, undo the suppression nerf for the 50 cal, and do something so that AT guns don't get 1 or 2-shotted by a Stupa. I don't play UKF enough to have an opinion on them, but do think that the list should also be small (maybe even just the snares that you mentioned above).

The point that I was trying to make is that I like what Relic is doing now with the smaller, targeted patches and don't think that nerfing OKW as a whole will be helpful.


I think we're in agreement then. Buffing everything to anwser the op units is a bad mistake that relic made and we are still struggling with. However I feel strongly that volks need a nerf and Obers need to be made accessible. A faction with 3 infantry units 2 as hard AI units aaaaaand we mostly only see the cheap general purpose unit... Okw isn't perfect by a long shot and I really think volks are crutching too much to get a good read on them. Plus a major upset for balance. At 10mp more than cons and grens they borrow the best from both and ignore the weaknesses which is an awful design. Rifles are supposed to be the leg work infantry not volks...
20 Nov 2018, 16:17 PM
#67
avatar of adamírcz

Posts: 955

Earlier arriving Obersoldaten would certainly not be OP, unless they would also get lower vet requirements
Sure its a strong infantry, but it also mean two less volks squads
And they get countered by: Snipers, MGs, Indirect and Light vehicles
20 Nov 2018, 16:26 PM
#68
avatar of Grumpy

Posts: 1954



I think we're in agreement then. Buffing everything to anwser the op units is a bad mistake that relic made and we are still struggling with. However I feel strongly that volks need a nerf and Obers need to be made accessible. A faction with 3 infantry units 2 as hard AI units aaaaaand we mostly only see the cheap general purpose unit... Okw isn't perfect by a long shot and I really think volks are crutching too much to get a good read on them. Plus a major upset for balance. At 10mp more than cons and grens they borrow the best from both and ignore the weaknesses which is an awful design. Rifles are supposed to be the leg work infantry not volks...


I agree with you on both Volks and Obers. I'd also like to see the raketen get a wider firing arc and shorter aim time, possibly in exchange for making it stationary while cloaked. There are too many times that it seems like they should be firing at a vehicle and they don't.
20 Nov 2018, 16:30 PM
#69
avatar of Vipper

Posts: 13496 | Subs: 1

jump backJump back to quoted post20 Nov 2018, 16:26 PMGrumpy


I agree with you on both Volks and Obers. I'd also like to see the raketen get a wider firing arc and shorter aim time, possibly in exchange for making it stationary while cloaked. There are too many times that it seems like they should be firing at a vehicle and they don't.

One could test making the RW work as hand held rocket AT weapons.

High mobility and response times with less penetration/damage and deflection deflection damage. More like an AT squad with longer range.
20 Nov 2018, 17:28 PM
#70
avatar of Sander93

Posts: 3166 | Subs: 6

Earlier arriving Obersoldaten would certainly not be OP


IMO, buffing up OKW's mid game with Obers might allow their early game to be nerfed a bit. They would have more steady power throughout a match rather than having to rely on early game rush. It would be healthier for faction balance.
20 Nov 2018, 20:58 PM
#71
avatar of Katitof

Posts: 17914 | Subs: 8

jump backJump back to quoted post20 Nov 2018, 16:30 PMVipper

One could test making the RW work as hand held rocket AT weapons.

High mobility and response times with less penetration/damage and deflection deflection damage. More like an AT squad with longer range.

You know well that it can't stop being team weapon, or it'll be spammed and blobbed to alpha strike, especially if it was unkiteable.
20 Nov 2018, 21:07 PM
#72
avatar of Grumpy

Posts: 1954

jump backJump back to quoted post20 Nov 2018, 16:30 PMVipper

One could test making the RW work as hand held rocket AT weapons.

High mobility and response times with less penetration/damage and deflection deflection damage. More like an AT squad with longer range.


I think that is what was intended, but really I'd just like a reliable AT gun. It seems to get a lot better with vet, and works a lot better than it used to (forget what was changed in the last patch), but still isn't that great.
20 Nov 2018, 21:22 PM
#73
avatar of Sander93

Posts: 3166 | Subs: 6

I think range to 60 with a bit better arc and shorter aim time (to compensate for the missile's tendency to connect with literally anything between it and the target). Make the camo either stationary or a very slow crawl.

Less cheese, more reliable.
28 Nov 2018, 07:09 AM
#74
avatar of distrofio

Posts: 2358

jump backJump back to quoted post20 Nov 2018, 16:26 PMGrumpy


I agree with you on both Volks and Obers. I'd also like to see the raketen get a wider firing arc and shorter aim time, possibly in exchange for making it stationary while cloaked. There are too many times that it seems like they should be firing at a vehicle and they don't.

+1

RW needs some tweakings, stationary camo should have been implemented patches ago.

30 Nov 2018, 10:49 AM
#75
avatar of FelixTHM

Posts: 503 | Subs: 1

I think range to 60 with a bit better arc and shorter aim time (to compensate for the missile's tendency to connect with literally anything between it and the target). Make the camo either stationary or a very slow crawl.

Less cheese, more reliable.


Or just no camo by default in exchange for decent AT gun stats. Maybe then we could add a doctrinal cloak for mg34 + raketen?

I'm ok with them having an exposed and clustered crew in exchange for retreat, but aim-time, arc, and range are pretty horrendous atm.
15 Dec 2018, 23:40 PM
#76
avatar of Kill3rCat

Posts: 33

Inclined to disagree. All the factions feel fairly balanced tbh. Different factions have different strengths, and if you're losing you're probably not playing great, or you're not using the best bits of that faction. Try different build orders, or if you really feel a faction is OP, try playing as that faction.

The factions aren't perfectly balanced, but I feel that skill is a much greater decider than any 'OP' content.
16 Dec 2018, 03:12 AM
#77
avatar of Cresc

Posts: 378

THEY NEED TO NERF THAT SPECIAL OP DOCTRINE WITH THE 60 MUNI MAPHACK 15 MUNI INSTAWIPE GRENADES AND COMMAND WITH 1KM SATELITTE TURRET AND DAMN MARK TARGET (for 30 muni)

I'VE HAD IT WITH THIS DOC, REACHED BOILING TEMPERATURE, MY HEADS GONNA EXPLODE



16 Dec 2018, 10:30 AM
#78
avatar of Bananenheld

Posts: 1593 | Subs: 1

jump backJump back to quoted post16 Dec 2018, 03:12 AMCresc
THEY NEED TO NERF THAT SPECIAL OP DOCTRINE WITH THE 60 MUNI MAPHACK 15 MUNI INSTAWIPE GRENADES AND COMMAND WITH 1KM SATELITTE TURRET AND DAMN MARK TARGET (for 30 muni)

I'VE HAD IT WITH THIS DOC, REACHED BOILING TEMPERATURE, MY HEADS GONNA EXPLODE





Sell your computer, gaming is not healthy for you.
16 Dec 2018, 10:35 AM
#79
avatar of Antemurale
Senior Moderator Badge

Posts: 951



Sell your computer, gaming is not healthy for you.


:lolol::lolol::lolol::lolol::lolol::lolol::lolol:
16 Dec 2018, 10:56 AM
#80
avatar of Michalszym

Posts: 51

To be fair, he has some points, the Spec Ops doctrine is really good, and makes all other doctrines inferior.
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