Soviet tank veterancy needs a rework

It's no news that soviet armor in general is underperforming trash and one thing that could help it a lot is a simple change. A change for their vet 1 that nobody uses.

It makes me wonder who though giving is-2 or t34/85's and so on a capture at vet 1. Such a great idea. Meanwhile the tiger that is arguably better than IS-2 and pz iv gets blitzkrieg at vet 1 so essentially a free war speed. Alongside other doctrinal goodies and this simple change could help soviet armor a lot, especially the IS-2.

Didn't SU have the highest win rate in the last tourniment and thus it's fair to say that their tanks are not underperforming?

It would be a reasonable thing to give different vet1 to IS2s and 85s, but... pretty sure that everyone has at least one story of a VP cap with an IS2 winning their game

Most EFA armies units needs to have their abilities, vet abilities, vet bonuses and XP values checked.

Some other units need that also like the JT if remember correctly that if one ever manages to get to level 5 he will be glad to know that it is no longer dazed from shots.

Soviet armor is underperforming trash? Soviets have one of the better lategames in terms of diversity and utility, and if you add doctrinally some of the strongest units ingame for price.

Soviet armor is underperforming trash? Soviets have one of the better lategames in terms of diversity and utility, and if you add doctrinally some of the strongest units ingame for price.

yeah only second to Ostheer of course? Also pz iv is basically t-34/85 more or less while being un-doctrinal. (ofc we cant have allied faction be better since its allied) And OKW/Brits lategame isnt bad either, especially OKW with best armor ingame and a better su-85/IS-2. Not to forget brits get a non-doctrinal heavy and a good TD or can tech into trash version panthers. Only gap to fill is rocket arty but oh, of course OKW gets stukas too!

Didn't SU have the highest win rate in the last tourniment and thus it's fair to say that their tanks are not underperforming?

If you are talking about GCS then OKW had highest winrate and not even by a small %.Actually 4% lol and they still refuse to nerf them. Soviet 2nd with ostheer behind only 1%. But these are 1v1's where u rarely see a lot of lategame armor.

Also pz iv is basically t-34/85 more or less while being un-doctrinal. (ofc we cant have allied faction be better since its allied)...

I suggest you load cheat mode and test 10 times a fight between a T-34/85 vs PzIV and come back with the replay and with the result.

Didn't SU have the highest win rate in the last tourniment and thus it's fair to say that their tanks are not underperforming?

That's rather poor argument, considering that soviets did pretty much fine most of the time but most certainly not thanks to stock units.

Regarding armor vet, I used to advocate for revamping KV series vet to match heavy tank role, however with rec dmg on KV-1 and on vet KV-8 that no longer is any concern(well, there is also MEME-2 but who cares for it anymore). T34s got pretty suitable vet.

yeah only second to Ostheer of course? Also pz iv is basically t-34/85 more or less while being un-doctrinal. (ofc we cant have allied faction be better since its allied) And OKW/Brits lategame isnt bad either, especially OKW with best armor ingame and a better su-85/IS-2. Not to forget brits get a non-doctrinal heavy and a good TD or can tech into trash version panthers. Only gap to fill is rocket arty but oh, of course OKW gets stukas too!

I suggest learning the unit stats before saying X is better than Y.

Honestly, I think only the IS-2 needs tweaking. Give the IS-2 a RoF nerf, a AoE buff, and a aimed HE shell as a vet 1 ability and I'll be more or less happy.
#makeIS2greatagain

I'd like to see the KV-2 get a thought out ability. Something like a 3 shell ml-20 barrage would be perfect imo but cap territory on it certainly is not..

That's rather poor argument, considering that soviets did pretty much fine most of the time but most certainly not thanks to stock units.

SU doing well on the basis of call in units is kinda the point of SU. And its a sufficient counterexample to one saying "it's no news that soviet armor in general is underperforming trash"

SU doing well on the basis of call in units is kinda the point of SU. And its a sufficient counterexample to one saying "it's no news that soviet armor in general is underperforming trash"

Considering the fact that we moved away from this at all stages of the game by making core units strong enough to walk on their own legs, I don't think you have a point here about SU. In past sure due to crap balance, but not anymore.

But yeah, I don't agree soviet armor underperforms in any way(if we ignore existence of IS-2 and KV-2).

Honestly, I think only the IS-2 needs tweaking. Give the IS-2 a RoF nerf, a AoE buff, and a aimed HE shell as a vet 1 ability and I'll be more or less happy.
#makeIS2greatagain

Increase damage per round by 50%, nerf RoF by 50%. Other heavies (Pershing, Tiger, Panther) could follow the same route with bigger alpha damage (200 dmg would be good imo, so 25% dmg buff, -25% RoF nerf).

Near and mid AoE would be needed to be adjusted (down, but remain at equal AoE/dmg levels), with far AoE increased, I think its stronk when it hits and one-shot squad wipes (especially tiny four men squads) is not fun nor fair.

Increase damage per round by 50%, nerf RoF by 50%. Other heavies (Pershing, Tiger, Panther) could follow the same route with bigger alpha damage (200 dmg would be good imo, so 25% dmg buff, -25% RoF nerf).

Near and mid AoE would be needed to be adjusted (down, but remain at equal AoE/dmg levels), with far AoE increased, I think its stronk when it hits and one-shot squad wipes (especially tiny four men squads) is not fun nor fair.

You and the guy you've quoted probably are too young to remember, but that's how it was at the start and it was dreadful, IS-2 couldn't hit literally anything, but when it did once the planets aligned, it was a wipe.

You literally want to make is another KV-2, because KV-2 is at the moment exactly what you're asking for.
So before you go wild, play with KV-2 and think again if you want IS-2 to be that shitty too.

Actually I am was playing COH when you probably still wore diepers. And yes, the original IS-2 was a nuke or miss, but that is not what I am looking for nor that is what the suggested changes intend. They intend higher alpha damage (more impact in tank vs tank), circa the same anti infantry damage.

Currently the issue with literally all heavies is that that they are more or less just damage sponges, instead of firepower concentration. More impact is needed. More character. Between all the 'balancing', COH is looking more and more like a Starcraft game, where 'balance' is achieved by always consistent results. Might as well do away with hit chance and armor, but then it is not COH.

Higher alpha would be preferable for heavy tanks that are limited to 1, slow, and work in practice as TD magnets instead of a steady stream of DPS. Simply buffing their RoF is a lazy solution, as squad wipes can be avoided by properly adjusting the near and mid AoE. If consistent AI performance is required, adjustment of scatter is needed.

This is how it worked in Coh 1 and it worked well.

Problem with KV-2 is that AoE on that thing flat out sucks, its still working on "if it hits directly it wipes entire squad" logic but in reality it's accuracy sucks so it never actually hits those 1-shot-wipes, instead it keeps grazing squads killing 1-2 models (at best) at time with 10 second reload.

If it got changes ISU/Brummar got it would be far better than currently is.

Right now you cant even use it as indirect weapon since it has less range than mortars so it kinda does not fit anywhere.

Honestly, I think only the IS-2 needs tweaking. Give the IS-2 a RoF nerf, a AoE buff, and a aimed HE shell as a vet 1 ability and I'll be more or less happy.
#makeIS2greatagain

Implying that in current state IS-2 usually doesn't aim HE shells... oh wait...

Actually I am was playing COH when you probably still wore diepers. And yes, the original IS-2 was a nuke or miss, but that is not what I am looking for nor that is what the suggested changes intend. They intend higher alpha damage (more impact in tank vs tank), circa the same anti infantry damage.

Currently the issue with literally all heavies is that that they are more or less just damage sponges, instead of firepower concentration. More impact is needed. More character. Between all the 'balancing', COH is looking more and more like a Starcraft game, where 'balance' is achieved by always consistent results. Might as well do away with hit chance and armor, but then it is not COH.

Higher alpha would be preferable for heavy tanks that are limited to 1, slow, and work in practice as TD magnets instead of a steady stream of DPS. Simply buffing their RoF is a lazy solution, as squad wipes can be avoided by properly adjusting the near and mid AoE. If consistent AI performance is required, adjustment of scatter is needed.

This is how it worked in Coh 1 and it worked well.

news flash we are not in coh 1 damage for armor is different here, u would need to copy the code int the game, deflection damage in coh 2 is almost non-existent for tanks that why any damage not multiple of 80 doesn't work well in most situations