USF COMMANDER REVAMP DISCUSSION

Anyway, some proposals for a partial rework of the top two voted commanders: Armor Company and Tactical Support Company.

• ASSAULT ENGINEERS - 0 CP
  Boost Assault Engineers to 5 men, making them a strong combat squad, and give them the ability to drop Sturmpioneer/M3 Halftrack medical crates. Swap Rear Echelon Flamers and Assault Engineers over so Armor Company has the cheap flamers and Rifle Company has the new pseudo-Sturmpios that can support Riflemen as an early flanking unit and medical crate dropper.
  
  
• M5 HALFTRACK - 3 CP
  Combine the M3 Halftrack (Mechanized) and the M5 Halftrack (Tactical Support) into one ability. The new ability calls in the M5 Halftrack with Step On It instead of Overdrive and a squad of the reworked Assault Engineers in the back. It does not have the medical crate drop: that's moved to Assault Engineers where it's arguably more useful and useable.

I like that a lot.

The bulldozer sherman coudl use a buff(front hp/armor buff?)... but avoid the damage buff to an extend becasue since it will face 4-5man squad any improvement in this area would make it rage inducing for OST/OKW player

give assault enginer or a +1model or stronger defence so it can get to its ideal range. up its price a itty bit maybe to compensate(+10or+20is enough)

exhaustion time slightly reduced and does not affect retreat(or it need to do more than speed you up)

Once again, suggestions based on statistics from this topic: https://www.coh2.org/topic/81227/second-commander-rework

Starting with Armor Company:

Assault Engineers feel underwhelming even for a starter unit which is able to upgrade to flamethrowers, the M3 Grease Gun does not provide enough Close Quarter firepower and they're too squishy as a 4 man "assault" squad.

Should be given a 5th man as in the Ardennes Campaign or replaced by Cavalry Riflemen in my opinion.

Elite Crews is too much of an useless ability that's better off just flat out replaced by something like an M8 or Tank Reserves from Mech Company which would make more sense since they'll either compliment or directly support your Armored Units, altho I agree that there would be a bit of an overlap with the regular Sherman bulldozer and 105 but then again you could still just skip the regular Sherman to get a 76mm one with 105 support.

And lastly, the M10. Since this unit has received a nerf to it's crush as well as being tied to the Major in terms of tech it's been a used a lot less as it's main point was having a good mobile unit that came earlier than the Jackson at a cheaper cost but could still fight enemy armor when microed correctly, something which is right now 2/3rds not since it comes so late now and not at a cheap cost at all if you have to get the Major first.

Tactical Support Company:

Currently there is nothing outside of the Calliopes combined with the M5 for air cover that's really "tactical" in this commander, something tactical would be an upgrade to Thompsons for Riflemen or giving them Sprint/Flares like in Rifle Company would be in my opinion.

When I hear "Tactical" I think of some small unit tactics conducted by specialist units in mostly a close quarters or urban environment, such as the Operations executed by the current special forces right now like Seal Team Six or the SAS. Or at least that's my own opinion, I could be entirely wrong about that.

Regarding Tactical Support Company, they could combine US Special Forces (Airborne, Rangers or Cavalry Riflemen) with a mechanized group, similar to Ost's truck (don't remember the name) along with Calliope and maybe some kind of soft or heavy bombardment. Another option would be Special Forces infiltrators, but this is something that currently doesn't exist in the game for USF.

Also, the commander is kinda tactical. Calliopes provide a helping hand prior to an attack,as they soften the enemy's concentrations of team weapons, bunkers or troops. Another way to make the Commander more tactical would be adding tools neccessary to carry out such operations.

Regarding Tactical Support Company, they could combine US Special Forces (Airborne, Rangers or Cavalry Riflemen) with a mechanized group, similar to Ost's truck (don't remember the name) along with Calliope and maybe some kind of soft or heavy bombardment. Another option would be Special Forces infiltrators, but this is something that currently doesn't exist in the game for USF.

Also, the commander is kinda tactical. Calliopes provide a helping hand prior to an attack,as they soften the enemy's concentrations of team weapons, bunkers or troops. Another way to make the Commander more tactical would be adding tools neccessary to carry out such operations.

Agreed.

Have you ever used the P47 strafing? It is utterly garbage. Please rethink also, who the hell would have the fuel to get all of those out? You need 2 max tanks type no more.

Have you ever used the P47 strafing? It is utterly garbage. Please rethink also, who the hell would have the fuel to get all of those out? You need 2 max tanks type no more.

The strafe is painfully hit and miss, it could have the cost inceased and be changed to two planes loitering.
As for the tanks, the idea isn't to build all of them like someone suffering from OCD, the point is that it has most mid to late game situations covered.
I would rather have the M10 replaced by the Easy8, but then there would be no M10 in the game.

I like that a lot.

Then I'll finish the job.

Okay, so here's my full proposal.

I've reworked three doctrines rather than two, but the edits are all fairly small so it should be roughly the same amount of work. It's mostly a reshuffle. Hopefully that's acceptable to Relic.

ARMOR COMPANY

• 0 CP - Rear Echelon Flamethrowers
  - Unchanged (from Rifle Company)
  
  Armor Company gets cheap RE flamers and Rifle Company has the newer, stronger Assault Engineers to support its Riflemen play. Medical crates also allow USF to forgo the Ambulance for a bit.
  

• 0 CP - M10 "Wolverine" Tank Destroyer
  - 'Flanking Speed' moved to Veterancy 0
  
  The M10 has always been Armor Company's signature tank and is very much the soul of the doctrine. It lost a bit of its power when it was tied to tech. Moving Flanking Speed to Vet 0 allows it to be a speedy flanking tank straight away rather than just being a budget Jackson for a while. first

• 8 CP - Mark Vehicle
  - Unchanged (from the Soviet faction)
  
  The Soviet ability. It's good for supporting M10s against stronger targets.

• 8 CP - 155mm Howitzer Barrage
  - Unchanged (from old Mechanized)
  
  This is an existing ability that used to be in Mechanized. With it back in the game it can be removed from the WC51. It's also probably more useful anyway: an armor based commander has more need of a light barrage to scatter AT guns than it does a heavy emplacement buster.

• 11 CP - 105mm Sherman Bulldozer
  - 105mm Howitzer range increased to 55 metres
  
  The Sherman Bulldozer's a decent anti-infantry tank but USF already has a very strong anti-infantry tank from the standard Sherman's HE rounds. With the Wolverine being tied to tech there's little reason to buy this expensive, exclusively AI tank. The increased range allows it to fire further than a normal Sherman and therefore fill a vehicular indirect fire role similar to the M8 Scott. With a range of 55 it can fire almost as far as the Scott and Jackson can, but it's still outranged by the PaK 40 and the Jagdpanzer IV.

TACTICAL SUPPORT COMPANY

• 3 CP - M1919A6 LMG
  - Unchanged.

• 3 CP - M3 Assault Group
  - Has a squad of Assault Engineers in the back.
  - Loses Medical Crates: that ability has moved to Assault Engineers.
  - Regains the Vehicle Repair Aura upgrade it used to have: fits the theme of this doctrine and is useful for Mechanized too.
  - Keeps its .50 cal machine gun and the Step On It! ability for bazooka shenanigans.
  - Cost increased 450 MP, 30 FU.
  
  A reworked version of the ability in Mechanized based on the philosophy of the new AT gun drop in Recon Support Company: excellent value for manpower but not very spammable. With Assault Engineers becoming a desirable squad we no longer need the janky Assault Engineer Crew solution. Mechanized also gets the new version.

• 4 CP - P47 Recon Run
  - Unchanged.

• 6 CP - White Phosphorous Barrage
  - Unchanged.
  
  Moved over from Rifle Company. Synergises with the Calliope.

• 10 CP - M4 Sherman Calliope
  - Unchanged.
  
  Indirectly buffed by the White Phosphorous synergy.

RIFLE COMPANY

• 0 CP - Sherman Easy Eight
  - Unchanged.

• 0 CP - Assault Engineers
  - Vet 1 'Destroy Cover' ability replaced with Vet 0 Medical Crates (like Sturmpioneers and the M3).
  - Gain a fifth man at Vet 1, replacing the lost Destroy Cover bonus.
  
  These reworked Assault Engineers are hopefully worth the 80MP extra they cost over Rear Echelons. They're still lackluster at Vet 0 but at Vet 1 they become a decent flanking squad and their support abilities hopefuly make them excellent support for Riflemen. Rifle Company is the only commander that can get them straight away, with Mechanized and Tactical Support having access to them through the 3 CP M3 Halftrack call-in.

• 2 CP - Rifleman Scout Training
  - Grants Riflemen the Flares ability.
  - Grants Riflemen and Assault Engineers the Sprint ability.
  
  This replaces Rifleman Flares and Fire Up. Sprint is Fire Up without the setback, which is what all other factions have. Assault Engineers get it too, making them a stronger flanking squad than they are in the other two doctrines that get them.

• 3 CP - M5 Halftrack
  - Overdrive replaced with Step On It!
  - Cost reduced from 350 MP 30 FU to 270 MP 30 FU, the same as the Soviet version.
  
  This is the M5 that was formerly in Tactical Support. An unupgraded halftrack with Step On It! is a very useful unit as Mechanized's M3 has proven and the Quad Mount can provide suppression and anti-air to Captain builds.

• 12 CP - 240mm Howitzer Barrage
  - Unchanged
  
  Moved over from Armor Company, which has the 155mm. This gives Rifle Company a powerful late game munitions sink.

Then I'll finish the job.

Okay, so here's my full proposal.

I've reworked three doctrines rather than two, but the edits are all fairly small so it should be roughly the same amount of work. It's mostly a reshuffle. Hopefully that's acceptable to Relic.

ARMOR COMPANY

• 0 CP - Rear Echelon Flamethrowers
  - Unchanged (from Rifle Company)
  
  Armor Company gets cheap RE flamers and Rifle Company has the newer, stronger Assault Engineers to support its Riflemen play. Medical crates also allow USF to forgo the Ambulance for a bit.
  

• 0 CP - M10 "Wolverine" Tank Destroyer
  - 'Flanking Speed' moved to Veterancy 0
  
  The M10 has always been Armor Company's signature tank and is very much the soul of the doctrine. It lost a bit of its power when it was tied to tech. Moving Flanking Speed to Vet 0 allows it to be a speedy flanking tank straight away rather than just being a budget Jackson for a while. first

• 8 CP - Mark Vehicle
  - Unchanged (from the Soviet faction)
  
  The Soviet ability. It's good for supporting M10s against stronger targets.

• 8 CP - 155mm Howitzer Barrage
  - Unchanged (from old Mechanized)
  
  This is an existing ability that used to be in Mechanized. With it back in the game it can be removed from the WC51. It's also probably more useful anyway: an armor based commander has more need of a light barrage to scatter AT guns than it does a heavy emplacement buster.

• 11 CP - 105mm Sherman Bulldozer
  - 105mm Howitzer range increased to 55 metres
  
  The Sherman Bulldozer's a decent anti-infantry tank but USF already has a very strong anti-infantry tank from the standard Sherman's HE rounds. With the Wolverine being tied to tech there's little reason to buy this expensive, exclusively AI tank. The increased range allows it to fire further than a normal Sherman and therefore fill a vehicular indirect fire role similar to the M8 Scott. With a range of 55 it can fire almost as far as the Scott and Jackson can, but it's still outranged by the PaK 40 and the Jagdpanzer IV.

TACTICAL SUPPORT COMPANY

• 3 CP - M1919A6 LMG
  - Unchanged.

• 3 CP - M3 Assault Group
  - Has a squad of Assault Engineers in the back.
  - Loses Medical Crates: that ability has moved to Assault Engineers.
  - Regains the Vehicle Repair Aura upgrade it used to have: fits the theme of this doctrine and is useful for Mechanized too.
  - Keeps its .50 cal machine gun and the Step On It! ability for bazooka shenanigans.
  - Cost increased 450 MP, 30 FU.
  
  A reworked version of the ability in Mechanized based on the philosophy of the new AT gun drop in Recon Support Company: excellent value for manpower but not very spammable. With Assault Engineers becoming a desirable squad we no longer need the janky Assault Engineer Crew solution. Mechanized also gets the new version.

• 4 CP - P47 Recon Run
  - Unchanged.

• 6 CP - White Phosphorous Barrage
  - Unchanged.
  
  Moved over from Rifle Company. Synergises with the Calliope.

• 10 CP - M4 Sherman Calliope
  - Unchanged.
  
  Indirectly buffed by the White Phosphorous synergy.

RIFLE COMPANY

• 0 CP - Sherman Easy Eight
  - Unchanged.

• 0 CP - Assault Engineers
  - Vet 1 'Destroy Cover' ability replaced with Vet 0 Medical Crates (like Sturmpioneers and the M3).
  - Gain a fifth man at Vet 1, replacing the lost Destroy Cover bonus.
  
  These reworked Assault Engineers are hopefully worth the 80MP extra they cost over Rear Echelons. They're still lackluster at Vet 0 but at Vet 1 they become a decent flanking squad and their support abilities hopefuly make them excellent support for Riflemen. Rifle Company is the only commander that can get them straight away, with Mechanized and Tactical Support having access to them through the 3 CP M3 Halftrack call-in.

• 2 CP - Rifleman Scout Training
  - Grants Riflemen the Flares ability.
  - Grants Riflemen and Assault Engineers the Sprint ability.
  
  This replaces Rifleman Flares and Fire Up. Sprint is Fire Up without the setback, which is what all other factions have. Assault Engineers get it too, making them a stronger flanking squad than they are in the other two doctrines that get them.

• 3 CP - M5 Halftrack
  - Overdrive replaced with Step On It!
  - Cost reduced from 350 MP 30 FU to 270 MP 30 FU, the same as the Soviet version.
  
  This is the M5 that was formerly in Tactical Support. An unupgraded halftrack with Step On It! is a very useful unit as Mechanized's M3 has proven and the Quad Mount can provide suppression and anti-air to Captain builds.

• 12 CP - 240mm Howitzer Barrage
  - Unchanged
  
  Moved over from Armor Company, which has the 155mm. This gives Rifle Company a powerful late game munitions sink.

This would be great. I feel like a lot of the usf commanders are just kinda poorly designed which is a huge problem since commander choice covers so many basic tools vanilla usf lacks.

Infantry Company

[0СP]
(Passive) Riflemen Field Defenses.
Riflemen are trained to build Fighting Positions, lay sandbags for cover, and plant mines.

[2CP]
Man the Defences.
Infantry in cover will receive defensive bonuses for a short duration on target friendly sector.

Cost 75 munitions, 25 seconds duration.

[4CP]
Reconnaissance Overflight.
A plane will fly over the designated area for a small period of time, revealing all enemy units and terrain near the location.

Cost 60 munitions.

[5CP]
Call-in Mechanized cavalry rifleman group on M3.

Cost 540 manpower and 30 fuel.
Cavalry rifleman squad armed with Thompson Submachine guns.
M3 has ability "Field Maintenance" for repair nearby units.
Cost 60 munitions to upgrade.

[9CP]
Call-in M7B1 Priest unit.
"The M7B1 'Priest' uses the proven Sherman tank chassis mounting a 105mm howitzer for
long range artillery barrages capable of damaging or destroying almost any kind of target.

Cost 480 manpower and 115 fuel.

Infantry Company
The core of every infantry company is a good combination of attack, defence and support capabilites. Riflemen Field Defenses allow USF infantry being "real" infantry that can construct light cover for establishing the front and Man the Defences ability will help to repel any heavy infantry assault on core sectors. Then, when the attack ended, Recon Overflight will provide a vision on enemy positions for preparing the counterattack. The Cavalry Riflemen on M3 with the M7B1 "Priest" arillery will move on the positions to suppress remained enemy resistance.




Rifle Company

[0CP]
(Passive) Flamethrowers for Rear Echelon squad.

Cost 60 munitions to upgrade.

[2CP]
(Passive) Flares for Rifleman Squads.

Cost 30 munitions to use.

[3CP]
Call-in Sniper unit.

Cost 360 manpower.

[3CP]
(Passive) M1 Carbine upgrade for Rifleman Squad.

5 rifles for 80 munitions.
Adds "Suppressive fire" ability for 20 munitions.

[7CP]
(Passive) Phosphorus barrage for 81-mm Mortar Squads and M8A1 howitzer motor carriage.

Cost 45 munitions to use.

Rifle Company
As previously said USF has variety of "instruments" to dealing with any threat on the frontline. Additional weaponry for Rear Echelon and Rifleman squad will slightly change their purpose, allowing Riflemans to suppress any infantry targets when Rear Echelon squads will burn them with the flamethrowers. If they engage a heavy fortified positions, Sniper and Phosphorus charges will provide cover for engaging units.

M1 carbine upgrade for rifleman is useless

Your suggestion for Rifleman company is not good

Rifle company's concept is supporting for rifleman

Where is sprint? sniper is not match with Rifle comppany

Evne Ez8 is not here

your suggestion will makes rifle company more weak

M1 carbine upgrade for rifleman is useless

Your suggestion for Rifleman company is not good

Rifle company's concept is supporting for rifleman

Where is sprint? sniper is not match with Rifle comppany

Evne Ez8 is not here

your suggestion will makes rifle company more weak

Tell me, do you even using the Sprint ability for Riflemans? Of course not.

E8 is completely similar to 76(W) Sherman. Except E8 has a bit more front armor.

M1 Carbine is useless? Tell that to Paratrooper squad or Rangers, they will shred any Ostheer/ squad into pieces.

People using Rifleman company now for two purposes, spamming E8 and Phosphorus charges, other 3 abilities are'n using in 90% of the times.

Tell me, do you even using the Sprint ability for Riflemans? Of course not.

E8 is completely similar to 76(W) Sherman. Except E8 has a bit more front armor.

M1 Carbine is useless? Tell that to Paratrooper squad or Rangers, they will shred any Ostheer/ squad into pieces.

People using Rifleman company now for two purposes, spamming E8 and Phosphorus charges, other 3 abilities are'n using in 90% of the times.

I agree with what you’re saying except I’d like to point out that the M1 carbine upgrade would need to be able to have BARs stacked on it as well or else it would not be viable just because it would take the place of BARs.

Infantry Company

[0СP]
(Passive) Riflemen Field Defenses.
Riflemen are trained to build Fighting Positions, lay sandbags for cover, and plant mines.

[2CP]
Man the Defences.
Infantry in cover will receive defensive bonuses for a short duration on target friendly sector.

Cost 75 munitions, 25 seconds duration.

[4CP]
Reconnaissance Overflight.
A plane will fly over the designated area for a small period of time, revealing all enemy units and terrain near the location.

Cost 60 munitions.

[5CP]
Call-in Mechanized cavalry rifleman group on M3.

Cost 540 manpower and 30 fuel.
Cavalry rifleman squad armed with Thompson Submachine guns.
M3 has ability "Field Maintenance" for repair nearby units.
Cost 60 munitions to upgrade.

[9CP]
Call-in M7B1 Priest unit.
"The M7B1 'Priest' uses the proven Sherman tank chassis mounting a 105mm howitzer for
long range artillery barrages capable of damaging or destroying almost any kind of target.

Cost 480 manpower and 115 fuel.

Infantry Company
The core of every infantry company is a good combination of attack, defence and support capabilites. Riflemen Field Defenses allow USF infantry being "real" infantry that can construct light cover for establishing the front and Man the Defences ability will help to repel any heavy infantry assault on core sectors. Then, when the attack ended, Recon Overflight will provide a vision on enemy positions for preparing the counterattack. The Cavalry Riflemen on M3 with the M7B1 "Priest" arillery will move on the positions to suppress remained enemy resistance.




Rifle Company

[0CP]
(Passive) Flamethrowers for Rear Echelon squad.

Cost 60 munitions to upgrade.

[2CP]
(Passive) Flares for Rifleman Squads.

Cost 30 munitions to use.

[3CP]
Call-in Sniper unit.

Cost 360 manpower.

[3CP]
(Passive) M1 Carbine upgrade for Rifleman Squad.

5 rifles for 80 munitions.
Adds "Suppressive fire" ability for 20 munitions.

[7CP]
(Passive) Phosphorus barrage for 81-mm Mortar Squads and M8A1 howitzer motor carriage.

Cost 45 munitions to use.

Rifle Company
As previously said USF has variety of "instruments" to dealing with any threat on the frontline. Additional weaponry for Rear Echelon and Rifleman squad will slightly change their purpose, allowing Riflemans to suppress any infantry targets when Rear Echelon squads will burn them with the flamethrowers. If they engage a heavy fortified positions, Sniper and Phosphorus charges will provide cover for engaging units.

Ontop of what others have said.

Giving Rear echelons flamers works out REALLY badly relative to the other factions' flamers. Re's a too squishy for an close combat role.

Rather than flamers, give them an upgrade which boosts their suppressive ability (maybe into a toggle where they can't move but slowly suppress whoever they shoot) They are distant support units, flamers don't fit their role

Tell me, do you even using the Sprint ability for Riflemans? Of course not.

E8 is completely similar to 76(W) Sherman. Except E8 has a bit more front armor.

M1 Carbine is useless? Tell that to Paratrooper squad or Rangers, they will shred any Ostheer/ squad into pieces.

People using Rifleman company now for two purposes, spamming E8 and Phosphorus charges, other 3 abilities are'n using in 90% of the times.

I do use sprint!
Usually to run up straight past a deploying HMG


76 sherman is closer to regular sherman than easy 8,easy8 is the only reliable front line tank for USF, should be more common like T34-85. It will reduce the reliance on rifle squads to tank damage.

I see what you're trying to make work with the rifle carbine.... But.... Nah. Just nah. Just give the LMG weapon rack.
It won't help rifles late game where any CQB is a huge manpower drain with all the tanks, nades, arty and HMG's. I'd rather my rifles had more long-range staying power to screen all my glass cannon Jacksons shermans and support weapons

Speaking of sprint, how many of you actually use flares on the rifles?

Because I think it's better to combine sprint and the marksman ability rather than sprint and flares and call it riflemen elite training, there's even voice files for it.

Speaking of sprint, how many of you actually use flares on the rifles?

Because I think it's better to combine sprint and the marksman ability rather than sprint and flares and call it riflemen elite training, there's even voice files for it.

BTW did you know rifle flare doesn't reveal camo unit. Now you know.

BTW did you know rifle flare doesn't reveal camo unit. Now you know.

Uhm, good to know, thanks.

Even more reason for them to be replaced by a Marksman upgrade if I'm honest.

The upgrade would take up 1 or 2 slots so you can't both snipe and BAR enemy squads at the same time so it would be somewhat balanced in my opinion.

Uhm, good to know, thanks.

Even more reason for them to be replaced by a Marksman upgrade if I'm honest.

The upgrade would take up 1 or 2 slots so you can't both snipe and BAR enemy squads at the same time so it would be somewhat balanced in my opinion.

Feels like that belongs with the Pathfinders