When was the last time you have seen IS-2 used by anyone?
Do people even remember how it looks?
Noggano gave Asten a crushin 7vps left defeat for Asten with that IS-2 being the main reason Noggano won. :>
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When was the last time you have seen IS-2 used by anyone?
Do people even remember how it looks?
Posts: 1930
Yeah, that's fair. I don't know that I'd tone down double LMGs any more though. They're already the worst upgrade in the game. Maybe nerf IS vet a bit instead? If you tone them down more, I don't think they'll be worth it.
Perhaps an idea indeed, but I don't know if further veterancy nerfs are the way to go. I rather think the problem with tommies being too good when they get a snare is their double lmg 5 men bolstered performance. They become absolutely too durable in that stage. Unfortunately, without adjusting the other things mentioned, they almost have to be.
Posts: 4183 | Subs: 4
the tommies already have the weakest veterancy in the game
+20% accuracy
-20% cooldown time
-22% incoming accuracy
grenadier:
+40% accuracy
-20% cooldown time
-23% incoming accuracy
the bren and vicker k should have been restricted to one per squad.
Posts: 2066
the tommies already have the weakest veterancy in the game
+20% accuracy
-20% cooldown time
-22% incoming accuracy
grenadier:
+40% accuracy
-20% cooldown time
-23% incoming accuracy
the bren and vicker k should have been restricted to one per squad.
Posts: 13496 | Subs: 1
With this logic I could say, that when a T70 and the Panther are the only vehicles in game and the T70 would get 50% extra armor at vet 3 and the Panther would 10% extra armor at vet 3,the Panther has the weakest veterancy in game lol
Posts: 1930
Percentages don't mean anything without a base value.
Posts: 138
I have calculated the dps of the lee enfield, bren, k98k, and lmg42 on vet3 tommies and vet3 gren verus each other. range are in 5 meter increment, rounded to 4 decimal and the dps take into account target size and veterancy
lee enfield
4.1507|3.9953|3.7061|3.4505|3.2229|3.0189|2.7476|2.5073
k98k
5.1387|4.5668|3.9625|3.4790|3.0836|2.7540|2.4010|2.1030
lmg42
6.0327|6.6416|7.2007|7.7055|8.1523|8.5378|8.7938|8.7506
bren
4.1720|4.6211|5.0058|5.3207|5.5613|5.7240|6.0328|6.3103
that double bren is really the only thing keeping the Tommy relevant.
Posts: 353
Posts: 1468 | Subs: 4
Posts: 4183 | Subs: 4
I have calculated the dps of the lee enfield, bren, k98k, and lmg42 on vet3 tommies and vet3 gren verus each other. range are in 5 meter increment, rounded to 4 decimal and the dps take into account target size and veterancy
lee enfield
4.1507|3.9953|3.7061|3.4505|3.2229|3.0189|2.7476|2.5073
k98k
5.1387|4.5668|3.9625|3.4790|3.0836|2.7540|2.4010|2.1030
lmg42
6.0327|6.6416|7.2007|7.7055|8.1523|8.5378|8.7938|8.7506
bren
4.1720|4.6211|5.0058|5.3207|5.5613|5.7240|6.0328|6.3103
that double bren is really the only thing keeping the Tommy relevant.
I just don't understand why people are so opposed to giving Tommies a snare.
Yes, they're the best mainline infantry in the game - but they also require, by FAR the most investment.
Out of the gate they're extremely expensive, they're horrible at flanking because of their atrocious accuracy on the move, and as Firesparks has pointed out you have to spend precious fuel AND 90 munis to keep them competitive with Grenadiers as the game progresses. Yet Grenadier faust, unlike every other infantry-based hard snare in the game, isn't gated by tech/time.
Did people forget how much OKW struggled against light vehicles back in the day because of this exact lack of snare?
The ONLY reliable snare UKF has is on a research based light vehicle that isn't particularly durable or effective against infantry, AND that snare isn't pseduo-permanent like faust/AT nade/etc.
If you don't want to give Tommies snare, at least give it to sappers in some form. But I don't think that'd be enough. They're already too busy repairing/planting mines/sweeping mid/late game.
Another overlooked problem between UKF and other factions is their inability to terraform the map early game. Not being able to lay wire to deny important green cover/flanking routes is brutal for a faction that relies on engaging in cover and (preferably) at max range at all times.
Furthermore, tying snare to the grenade tech, UKF players will still have to invest EVEN MORE into Tommies to even let them snare in the first place.
Sometimes I just don't even... at the risk of sounding frustrated by people's logic let me lay it out the way it sounds:
1) Hey we know UKF is objectively the weakest 1v1 faction in the game.
2) Dang, they really struggle at actually killing tanks and can get flanked more easily than any other faction because EVERY other faction has a mainline infantry based snare to punish over-extensions.
3) Should we add a snare to UKF? Nope.
Edit: Even if Tommies get a snare, the faction is still going to struggle against HMGs, snipers, and have arguably the weakest assortment of tanks to choose from. Centaur is passable, but a shadow of what it used to be. Cromwell is probably the weakest overall medium in the game and the Firefly is slow, expensive, has an atrocious rate of fire, and requires a huge munitions investment to keep up with other TDs. Comets are hardly worth the cost. Churchills are nice, but difficult to get to in a 1v1. Probably their strongest tank these days though.
Posts: 1930
I just don't understand why people are so opposed to giving Tommies a snare.
Yes, they're the best mainline infantry in the game - but they also require, by FAR the most investment.
Out of the gate they're extremely expensive, they're horrible at flanking because of their atrocious accuracy on the move, and as Firesparks has pointed out you have to spend precious fuel AND 90 munis to keep them competitive with Grenadiers as the game progresses. Yet Grenadier faust, unlike every other infantry-based hard snare in the game, isn't gated by tech/time.
Did people forget how much OKW struggled against light vehicles back in the day because of this exact lack of snare?
The ONLY reliable snare UKF has is on a research based light vehicle that isn't particularly durable or effective against infantry, AND that snare isn't pseduo-permanent like faust/AT nade/etc.
If you don't want to give Tommies snare, at least give it to sappers in some form. But I don't think that'd be enough. They're already too busy repairing/planting mines/sweeping mid/late game.
Another overlooked problem between UKF and other factions is their inability to terraform the map early game. Not being able to lay wire to deny important green cover/flanking routes is brutal for a faction that relies on engaging in cover and (preferably) at max range at all times.
Furthermore, tying snare to the grenade tech, UKF players will still have to invest EVEN MORE into Tommies to even let them snare in the first place.
Sometimes I just don't even... at the risk of sounding frustrated by people's logic let me lay it out the way it sounds:
1) Hey we know UKF is objectively the weakest 1v1 faction in the game.
2) Dang, they really struggle at actually killing tanks and can get flanked more easily than any other faction because EVERY other faction has a mainline infantry based snare to punish over-extensions.
3) Should we add a snare to UKF? Nope.
Edit: Even if Tommies get a snare, the faction is still going to struggle against HMGs, snipers, and have arguably the weakest assortment of tanks to choose from. Centaur is passable, but a shadow of what it used to be. Cromwell is probably the weakest overall medium in the game and the Firefly is slow, expensive, has an atrocious rate of fire, and requires a huge munitions investment to keep up with other TDs. Comets are hardly worth the cost. Churchills are nice, but difficult to get to in a 1v1. Probably their strongest tank these days though.
I'm curious about tommies DPS in cover vs out of cover as well, since I believe they get a RoF(?) bonus incover.
Posts: 3166 | Subs: 6
Posts: 868 | Subs: 5
UKF seems to be another victim of CoH's inherent problem of 1v1 and team games having the same balance. UKF do very well in team games where fights are more concentrated / corridored, but apparently seem underpowered in the more spread out fights of 1v1s. It's probably too late for CoH2 but if there's going to be a CoH3 Relic should seriously consider seperate balance for different game modes because that seems to be the root of most balance problems.
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