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So why exactly can't UKF/USF base buildings be destroyed ?

4 Jun 2018, 11:58 AM
#41
avatar of |GB| The Lnt.599

Posts: 323 | Subs: 1


No they can't.They just can get damaged so much that you can not use them for building troops anymore.You just need to repair them with pioneers and that's it ... no fuel and manpower to invest for getting the base again like with other fractions.



did u this time check your facts? or are u talking about stuff without knowledge again? ^^
4 Jun 2018, 15:06 PM
#42
avatar of swordfisch

Posts: 138



Accusing someone of not having a playercard while thinking sections are worse than grens? 0.8 vs 0.91 RA, cover bonus, double upgrading, better vet..... all for a measly 40mp and they cost the same pop cap. The only thing unique about grens is the rifle nade. Get your head checked. Brits don't have their own sniper? Yes u need to wait 4 minutes. Are you saying that you're such a scrub that you lose in 4 min?


I see you've convienesntly ignored the fact Gren MG42 and rifle nade is free from side tech cost and most importantly they have a snare to deal with vehicles.

Now with the nerf brens are roughly the same with a single MG42 squad in DPS, so you can't really fall back on that line either.

Cover bonus was also nerfed, as were tommy snipers that were removed from vet 3. Trenches were also hit by the nerf bat too.

Are you still living 12months in the past? Brits have the weakest early game my dude :D
4 Jun 2018, 15:12 PM
#43
avatar of mr.matrix300

Posts: 518



it's the only point here relevant to discussion, because you're rather deluded if you think annihilation victories are even relevant to balance.

Games aren't decided by who can destroy their HQ faster, hence why you're the only guy in three years to complain about something so minor.


How often do I have to say this again ? I am NOT talking about a total destroyed base but about the enemy entering the base,destroying a building and then fall back again.Against SU/OKW/OST this works but not against UKF/USF

Not to mention that unbeknownst to dear Mr. Matrix knowledge, making both UKF and USF bases similar to that of Ostheer or Soviets would benefit both of those factions greatly as the possibility of having buildings build-able close to the edge of the base sector is a great advantage and far outweigh the possibility of having these buildings destroyed more easily; and would be especially for the USF who have to be ridiculously close to their base to be able to reinforce.


So why is everybody raging if it is actually a buff ?(Btw I do not get why making the UKF/USF bases destroyable should allow them to put their bases where they want but ok ... that's another topic)
4 Jun 2018, 15:18 PM
#44
avatar of mr.matrix300

Posts: 518



You must be new here. You call 222 rush vs brits utter nonsense. I call it a past meta that still works to a degree.

You know, you can get more than one 222 if your aim is to destroy enemy base. If your opponent wishes to counter you with small arms then you just calmly take double fuel while he fights in his base and push out more 222s. If he builds an AEC, he is totally screwed against this, as AEC usually dies to 2 222s and has absolutely no chance against 3 of them. There are some way to counter this strategy though. You can go AT sections. You can mine base entrance. And you can get an AT gun. That is, if you are able to tech before first 222 comes for you :P

Btw, flaming is not allowed here so I think you should work on your language and temper. Just a friendly advice.

Same could work with AEC too so what's your point ?
jump backJump back to quoted post4 Jun 2018, 11:43 AMMongal


You seem to of forgot about OKW, they dont require there SPs to setup there trucks either.

But OKW bases also are not repairable for free once they are destroyed


They can match a gren out of cover at long range. They only lose at short range.

Just tested it.On long range (and without cover) Grens and IS performe around the same,on mid range IS wins and on close range too

4 Jun 2018, 15:36 PM
#45
avatar of mr.matrix300

Posts: 518




did u this time check your facts? or are u talking about stuff without knowledge again? ^^

I did one small mistake and that only because I wasn't sure and also top 50 player told so.
So where is your problem ?Mistakes happen
4 Jun 2018, 20:19 PM
#46
avatar of IncendiaryRounds:)

Posts: 1527

Permanently Banned


I see you've convienesntly ignored the fact Gren MG42 and rifle nade is free from side tech cost and most importantly they have a snare to deal with vehicles.

Now with the nerf brens are roughly the same with a single MG42 squad in DPS, so you can't really fall back on that line either.

Cover bonus was also nerfed, as were tommy snipers that were removed from vet 3. Trenches were also hit by the nerf bat too.

Are you still living 12months in the past? Brits have the weakest early game my dude :D


Sections are still better than grens easily and got a slight buff on the move. Plus mortars were nerfed which benefits brits the most since they have no counters to mortars early game, and really suffer from mortars.Trenches? You think the old trench was fair?! LOL. Brits don't have the weakest early game. If they do have the weakest early game, they're tied with Ost. I think sections are finally brought into their proper cost efficiency, so if that = weakest early game, then you're basically saying that Brits deserve to have the old OP sections.

Just saying that ferwiner is bullshitting when he thinks that 222s can still wreck the base of Brits early game. Even without snares, an AT gun will take 2/3 health from 222, you can finish them off with small arms if the 222 dares to linger any longer.
4 Jun 2018, 20:23 PM
#47
avatar of IncendiaryRounds:)

Posts: 1527

Permanently Banned


Just tested it.On long range (and without cover) Grens and IS performe around the same,on mid range IS wins and on close range too



Thanks for confirming my observations. Not sure how people think that the cover debuff is in any way significant. Though I believe grens can win at short range if both are without cover.
4 Jun 2018, 20:27 PM
#48
avatar of IncendiaryRounds:)

Posts: 1527

Permanently Banned
jump backJump back to quoted post4 Jun 2018, 11:43 AMMongal


You seem to of forgot about OKW, they dont require there SPs to setup there trucks either.


I didn't forget about OKW. Sturms cost 300 and 8 pop while western allies: 200/210. Rear ech don't even need to repair due to free crews therefore the 5 pop unit can easily afford to retreat to base and build. The duties of sturms are far more taxing than other repair units.
4 Jun 2018, 21:47 PM
#49
avatar of Stug life

Posts: 4474



I see you've convienesntly ignored the fact Gren MG42 and rifle nade is free from side tech cost and most importantly they have a snare to deal with vehicles.

Now with the nerf brens are roughly the same with a single MG42 squad in DPS, so you can't really fall back on that line either.

Cover bonus was also nerfed, as were tommy snipers that were removed from vet 3. Trenches were also hit by the nerf bat too.

Are you still living 12months in the past? Brits have the weakest early game my dude :D
everyting axis has is free right ? always the same arguemnt
and is in the fucking word too SIDE TEECCCHHH
why in COH 1 this was never an argument but in COH 2 is ?
5 Jun 2018, 03:58 AM
#50
avatar of LeOverlord

Posts: 310



How often do I have to say this again ? I am NOT talking about a total destroyed base but about the enemy entering the base,destroying a building and then fall back again.Against SU/OKW/OST this works but not against UKF/USF



So why is everybody raging if it is actually a buff ?(Btw I do not get why making the UKF/USF bases destroyable should allow them to put their bases where they want but ok ... that's another topic)




The enemy rushes the USF/UKF base (assuming that the USF/UKF player can't defend his base) and destroys USF's Company Command post and then retreats. The USF player now has to spend some time to repair his CCP in order to call in units like the Stuart, 57mm AT and Pak Howitzer. Meanwhile, the Axis player has taken the advantage, because the USF player has to repair his building and then call in a unit. By the time the USF player has called in a Stuart for example, the Axis player will already have a medium tank in the field. Now, USF player has to be lucky and pray for a mistake in order to turn the game. Base raid against USF/UKF is about delaying them in my opinion.
5 Jun 2018, 04:16 AM
#51
avatar of thedarkarmadillo

Posts: 5279

Would @vipper mind using his magical number crunching powers to tell us how long it takes a 222 to kill a UKF or usf base? Because I recall it being somewhat time consuming even with a proper tank (or gagle of tanks?) so I'm not personally seeing the opportunity to base rape that early.
5 Jun 2018, 05:08 AM
#52
avatar of FelixTHM

Posts: 503 | Subs: 1

I see everyone has been preparing for the 1v1 annihilation tournament.
5 Jun 2018, 05:14 AM
#53
avatar of Mongal

Posts: 102



I didn't forget about OKW. Sturms cost 300 and 8 pop while western allies: 200/210. Rear ech don't even need to repair due to free crews therefore the 5 pop unit can easily afford to retreat to base and build. The duties of sturms are far more taxing than other repair units.


So every faction should have to get there engineers to build there tech structures apart from OKW because there SPs cost 300mp. You are aware that OKW free starting unit is SPs yeah. So the 300mp is kind of irrelevent unless you are one of the players that lose there SPs in the first few minutes of the game. Brits also have to tech to tier 1 before they can access engineers so I dont quite understand how you expect a tier 1 unit to build the tier 1 structure. Also SPs and RoE have very similar roles except RoE have also got to try and keep emplacements alive.
5 Jun 2018, 05:23 AM
#54
avatar of Waegukin

Posts: 609

Would @vipper mind using his magical number crunching powers to tell us how long it takes a 222 to kill a UKF or usf base? Because I recall it being somewhat time consuming even with a proper tank (or gagle of tanks?) so I'm not personally seeing the opportunity to base rape that early.

Thanks to inspiration taken from this thread, glorious Relic matchmaking and high-quality British balance, I can confirm it takes 2:03 on the in-game clock for a 222 to solo a British T1 building.
5 Jun 2018, 07:40 AM
#55
avatar of thedarkarmadillo

Posts: 5279


Thanks to inspiration taken from this thread, glorious Relic matchmaking and high-quality British balance, I can confirm it takes 2:03 on the in-game clock for a 222 to solo a British T1 building.

Thanks! So iirc it takes an AT gun much less than that to build so we should be able to agree it's a non issue right?
Also I'm curious how long it takes JUST for rifle fire to kill a 222. I mean we all know it IS a non issue but I'm curious
5 Jun 2018, 14:54 PM
#56
avatar of IncendiaryRounds:)

Posts: 1527

Permanently Banned
jump backJump back to quoted post5 Jun 2018, 05:14 AMMongal


So every faction should have to get there engineers to build there tech structures apart from OKW because there SPs cost 300mp. You are aware that OKW free starting unit is SPs yeah. So the 300mp is kind of irrelevent unless you are one of the players that lose there SPs in the first few minutes of the game. Brits also have to tech to tier 1 before they can access engineers so I dont quite understand how you expect a tier 1 unit to build the tier 1 structure. Also SPs and RoE have very similar roles except RoE have also got to try and keep emplacements alive.


What I'm trying to say is that you can easily afford 2 sappers but its harder for OKW to afford 2 sturms. They are also not worth the 8 pop if you're simply using them for combat. However, sappers are quite cost efficient in that regard. So if you retreat your only sturms you may end up with no repairing, mining,sweeper squad for a while.
5 Jun 2018, 15:46 PM
#57
avatar of Katitof

Posts: 17914 | Subs: 8



What I'm trying to say is that you can easily afford 2 sappers but its harder for OKW to afford 2 sturms. They are also not worth the 8 pop if you're simply using them for combat. However, sappers are quite cost efficient in that regard. So if you retreat your only sturms you may end up with no repairing, mining,sweeper squad for a while.


How getting 2 sappers is easier then getting 2nd sturm?

420 mp is suddenly less then 320?

Its not harder for OKW to get 2nd sturm.
The first one does not disappear the moment you start building 2nd one, it'll still be there, from start.

Having a pair of sturms is CHEAPER then having a pair of sappers.

Go on.
Argue against that.
Argue against math.
5 Jun 2018, 16:54 PM
#58
avatar of mr.matrix300

Posts: 518



How getting 2 sappers is easier then getting 2nd sturm?

420 mp is suddenly less then 320?

Its not harder for OKW to get 2nd sturm.
The first one does not disappear the moment you start building 2nd one, it'll still be there, from start.

Having a pair of sturms is CHEAPER then having a pair of sappers.

Go on.
Argue against that.
Argue against math.

He wasn't including The Starting SP.





The enemy rushes the USF/UKF base (assuming that the USF/UKF player can't defend his base) and destroys USF's Company Command post and then retreats. The USF player now has to spend some time to repair his CCP in order to call in units like the Stuart, 57mm AT and Pak Howitzer. Meanwhile, the Axis player has taken the advantage, because the USF player has to repair his building and then call in a unit. By the time the USF player has called in a Stuart for example, the Axis player will already have a medium tank in the field. Now, USF player has to be lucky and pray for a mistake in order to turn the game. Base raid against USF/UKF is about delaying them in my opinion.

The OKW/OST player may loose some vehicles while attacking the base which makes him loose fuel but all the UKF/USF player does loose is a bit of time.Meanwhile if a UKF/USF player attacks OKW/OST base then OST/OKW will loose Time AND fuel
5 Jun 2018, 17:25 PM
#59
avatar of Lago

Posts: 3260

If you're in a position to start destroying base structures that means the enemy isn't in a position to contest your armor. It doesn't matter that they can rebuild their structures on the cheap: they won't get the chance.

If you're going into the enemy base and hanging around long enough to kill structures and the enemy is in a position to contest you then congratulations on throwing away your tanks.
5 Jun 2018, 17:26 PM
#60
avatar of thedarkarmadillo

Posts: 5279

The fact that this tactic... NEVER happens outside trash tier blowout games says all it needs to I think...
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