Jackson Overperforming

For whatever reason the Jackson nerf did not make it into the patch (besides sight reduction). This unit is overperforming especially against ostheer who just recieved a nerf to the stug (long overdue). A large nerf is not needed, but I think a slight pen reduction at far range is definitely warranted with the extra health it has now.

For whatever reason the Jackson nerf did not make it into the patch (besides sight reduction). This unit is overperforming especially against ostheer who just recieved a nerf to the stug (long overdue). A large nerf is not needed, but I think a slight pen reduction at far range is definitely warranted with the extra health it has now.

Try atgun and price decreased panzershreck.

Try atgun and price decreased panzershreck.

I am not looking for advice on how to counter Jacksons. Of course paks and pgrens are effective counters, but it doesn't change the fact that it is overperforming. Jackson is too good against OKW as well, although the jp4 can definitely go toe to toe better than the stug can.

USF doesn't deserve to have both the best mainline infantry in the game as well as the best TD. I am not even asking for a large nerf here. Like I said I think a small pen nerf at far range is all it needs. It can easily be made up for by using HVAP rounds, an underrated ability which I often see players neglect.

The Jackson received a popcap nerf so Jackson spam is less of an issue now: any player that heavily invests in Jacksons is going to have a fairly small army outside of them.

As for its strong performance against tanks in a slugging match, that's what it's for. If StuGs could counter Jacksons then they'd counter the entire USF vehicle fleet.

Lago I tottally agree. Besides, if you are skillful enough, you defiantly can counter them with 2 StuGs. Jacksons are the only hope you have as USF, no nerf please!!

The Jackson received a popcap nerf so Jackson spam is less of an issue now: any player that heavily invests in Jacksons is going to have a fairly small army outside of them.

As for its strong performance against tanks in a slugging match, that's what it's for. If StuGs could counter Jacksons then they'd counter the entire USF vehicle fleet.

Guys this has nothing to do with the stug. I even said that the stug nerf was warranted because it was way too good.

Do you guys think Jackson is in a good spot right now? USF is one of my favorite factions and I still think it is a little too effective, especially since you can decrew them when they are not being used.

Guys this has nothing to do with the stug. I even said that the stug nerf was warranted because it was way too good.

Jackson isn't even the go to counter Pz4 like it was before, two Stugs will keep the Jackson at bay. You are the one claiming the Jackson overperforms, but bring nothing to argument it. Please tell us how it is overperforming.
Does it counter its own counter?
Does it insta kill its targets?

Jackson isn't even the go to counter Pz4 like it was before, two Stugs will keep the Jackson at bay. You are the one claiming the Jackson overperforms, but bring nothing to argument it. Please tell us how it is overperforming.
Does it counter its own counter?
Does it insta kill its targets?

Jackson is simply too effective compared to other TD's like the su85, firefly, and stug. USF doesn't need a crutch like this as they already have one of the strongest rosters in the game. Has some of the best mobility among the tank destroyers, fast turret rotation, fantastic scaling and vet 1 ability, self repair, and can be decrewed when not being used.

I also don't really see how stating double stug can counter the Jackson is relevant when 2 stugs are more expensive, much harder to use due to there being 2 of them and having no turret, as well as being significantly outranged.

Many people are still in the mindset of USF having a weak late game when this is really not the case any longer imo. I feel like you guys are making this out to be like I am asking for some huge nerf or something. This is just a suggestion and perhaps something that could be experimented with for the next patch.

Many people are still in the mindset of USF having a weak late game when this is really not the case any longer imo. I feel like you guys are making this out to be like I am asking for some huge nerf or something. This is just a suggestion and perhaps something that could be experimented with for the next patch.

What those nerf have to accomplish? Making Jackson unreliable at far range? To let your heavy armor (960 health panther) die at far range vs a Jackson, you need to go take a leak in a middle of a game...

What those nerf have to accomplish? Making Jackson unreliable at far range? To let your heavy armor (960 health panther) die at far range vs a Jackson, you need to go take a leak in a middle of a game...

Ok. Obviously I'm not going to convince you so we might have to agree to disagree on this one. A nerf seems pretty warranted to me but maybe I completely off on this. I would like to hear some other peoples opinion though or if they have any other suggestions

It could stand to lose the accleration buff it got, since it now has the hp needed to slug out.

No need for jackson to have turret, range and fast acceleration all at the same time.

I'd be inclined to leave it be and see how things play out with the sight range reduction and the popcap changes.

Now that you guys mention it a speed nerf is probably a better idea than a pen nerf. Like lago said it could be too early to tell but I have a feeling that it is still probably too good

Ok. Obviously I'm not going to convince you so we might have to agree to disagree on this one. A nerf seems pretty warranted to me but maybe I completely off on this. I would like to hear some other peoples opinion though or if they have any other suggestions

Jackson has been nerfed indirectly with Panther armor/health switch, you already need one more penetration shot to take down a Panther. Jackson isn't already the go to counter Pz4 since both units able perfectly capable of winning the engagement based on who fire first and misses, nerfing long range pen isn't going to change that situation, same goes vs Stugs, long range pen nerf isn't going to change anything in the matchup.

So I ask you again, what do you want to achieve with that nerf? We already know (after 4/5 years of Coh2) that having pen standing on RNG isn't working and bring more frustration than anything else. Zarok proposal is clearly more interesting here.

Personally I don't see the Jackson overperforming, it doesn't have alfa strike like the FireFly, you always have plenty of time to react and escape and even if it has more hp diving in is still a huge risk, at the same time diving in to take it down is also more risky.
I can't really say in 4vs4, but 1vs1 and 2vs2 you need at least 2 of them (or a mix with your partner TD) to take something down on late game or use combined arms (usually atnade to let you finish off the target).

About vet1 dps boost, let's not forget the armor boost Axis tanks also get at vet1 and blitzkrieg that can be used just after a shot so you can escape during the reload time.

Honestly What have been done to the panther is in my opinion a really good change making panther more reliable and other TDs (not only Jackson) less powerful vs them.

Simply removing sight bonus was mistake. Units should be balanced at all vet level. M36 could lose some of basics that they could be moved to vet bonuses.

When balancing factions against each other you've got to look at them holistically.

USF for example has 280 MP infantry that lose to 240 and 250 MP infantry at range. However, they also have very cheap teching: if you factor in the cost of the squad T1 and T2 technically give you 100 MP.

The Jackson is a very effective tank destroyer but it's the only nondoctrinal AT vehicle USF has. Every other faction has at least two, OKW has three.

You can have a vehicle that counters the SU-76 if the SU-85 can deal with it. Tank Destroyers can counter the Panther without breaking the game because the JP4 or a pair of StuGs can be rolled out as a hard AT response.

If a vehicle counters the Jackson it counters USF's whole vehicular lineup.