Soviets dealing with heavy late german armor

Jump back to quoted post30 Jan 2016, 17:44 PMBIH_kirov_QC

i know all those stuff, but against good players it won't work. and it need alot of coordinations. and the german player all he had to do is pull back the jagd for the durations of the off maps abilitys, and come back 3 mins laters. and with okw anti air truck, the planes sometimes get shoot in less than 10 secs.

Your like OK GREAT i got a plane attack, 5 secs later..ok it already dead..

Jump back to quoted post30 Jan 2016, 18:47 PMNuclear Arbitor

because the VI B is faster/longer ranged than your su-75/85, because the map doesn't give room, or because you're not very good at it?

in my experience kiting works perfectly fine against VI Bs because they're so damn slow. if they player is smart (most are not) you won't kill the VI B but as long as it doesn't wipe any squads or kill any tanks then you're doing fine.

against the elefant or jtiger you really do just have to catch them out of position and then go all in on them. sometimes this just isn't feasible and it sucks and you just have to avoid bleed tanks to them and focus on capping.

Jump back to quoted post30 Jan 2016, 19:03 PMImagelessbean

The issue here is that Soviet artillery is supposed to hard counter German super heavies, but this has never really been the case (to my memory, maybe when ML 20 was amazing for a short time). As a result, in the very late stages of the game the Germans enter a gear no other faction (maybe Brits) can keep up with. This is common in 4v4 where games last into the 30 minute mark or longer regularly.

Artillery, the supposed counter to these units, needs to be beefed up to help deal with them. This means some form of buff. It may also make sense to reduce income of fuel and munitions in team games by reducing points or putting a permanent mod from Relic in rotation, to help extend Allied early game advantages clearly.

The KT I would say is fine.

ISU 152,
SU 85,
ML 20 (and maybe LeFH),
Elephant,
JT,

...are not. Not calling for huge buffs to Soviet arsenal, just better balance to help these units play out against each other fairly.

Jump back to quoted post30 Jan 2016, 19:03 PMImagelessbean

The issue here is that Soviet artillery is supposed to hard counter German super heavies, but this has never really been the case (to my memory, maybe when ML 20 was amazing for a short time). As a result, in the very late stages of the game the Germans enter a gear no other faction (maybe Brits) can keep up with. This is common in 4v4 where games last into the 30 minute mark or longer regularly.

Artillery, the supposed counter to these units, needs to be beefed up to help deal with them. This means some form of buff. It may also make sense to reduce income of fuel and munitions in team games by reducing points or putting a permanent mod from Relic in rotation, to help extend Allied early game advantages clearly.

The KT I would say is fine.

ISU 152,
SU 85,
ML 20 (and maybe LeFH),
Elephant,
JT,

...are not. Not calling for huge buffs to Soviet arsenal, just better balance to help these units play out against each other fairly.

Jump back to quoted post30 Jan 2016, 19:21 PMThe_Courier

Dual or triple SU-85s with Mark Target can trade blows with a KT easily, and even with an Elefant if you get a bit of RNG.

Otherwise, for Elefants and Jagdtigers, yeah you kinda need T34/85s to flank them, but they are also vulnerable to AT guns, and Guards work wonder against them too thanks to Button. If you damage their engines, they are absolutely sitting ducks for anything, offmaps and artillery included.

Jump back to quoted post30 Jan 2016, 16:11 PMButcher

...raketen...

Jump back to quoted post30 Jan 2016, 17:00 PMstrafniki

OP is right, SU has no NON doctrinal real counter to them...

Jump back to quoted post30 Jan 2016, 17:31 PMWaegukin

Agree with Aussie Magic for the most part, KT is a non-issue since SU-85s and 76s can kite it with some skill.

Jump back to quoted post30 Jan 2016, 17:57 PMThunderhun

Seems like Broken Target with T-34-85 spam doesnt work.

Jump back to quoted post30 Jan 2016, 17:57 PMThunderhun

Su-76s + ATGs guarded by Guards, mines, at nades arent a thing anymore.

Jump back to quoted post30 Jan 2016, 17:57 PMThunderhun

Soviets got the best tools in the allied arsenal to deal with axis armor.

Jump back to quoted post30 Jan 2016, 19:29 PMPlaguer

Just make an ISU and/or 3-4 T34/76s...this kills all heavy TDs easily.

Jump back to quoted post30 Jan 2016, 19:54 PMTAKTCOM

Anyone still use at? As OPKW user i always take MORE volksshreck then raketen.

Folk say, a long time ago, static artillery was intended like Elefant countermeasure...

+1, use Katy vs shreck+LMG/GWR hords and SU-76/85 vs all armor except heavy TD.

Men you need try use you own advice. This work is enemy have nothing except elef/jagtiger. No shreks, no mines, no fausts, no STUGs, etc and etc.

Panzerwerfer or Stuka will rip you apart. Damn even mortars. Or doc barrage. You need Katy to counter enemy hords and artillery.

M36, british 6 Pounder, 17lber, Firefly and Comet look at you as a hanomag.

Take 1 heavy SPG and 3-4 medium tanks to take off 1 heavy TD. How nice. Tell me how many free cap you have for infantry suport after "ISU and/or 3-4 T34/76s". And what will do with you armor german army built on a similar amount of resources.

Jump back to quoted post30 Jan 2016, 19:54 PMTAKTCOM

Take 1 heavy SPG and 3-4 medium tanks to take off 1 heavy TD. How nice. Tell me how many free cap you have for infantry suport after "ISU and/or 3-4 T34/76s". And what will do with you armor german army built on a similar amount of resources.

Jump back to quoted post30 Jan 2016, 19:28 PMCaptain QQ

Implying you mark target plane wont get shot out of the sky after 6 seconds of circling by all the mounted mgs that do AA.

Meanwhile my Quad HT cant even take out a single scout plane circling directly over it.

Jump back to quoted post30 Jan 2016, 23:29 PMThe_Courier

Elefants and Jagdtigers don't have MGs, so that makes this scenario that much harder. My Mark Target usually lasts long enough that either the target escapes or I get the kill.

I mean, unless you're talking in 3v3/4v4, in which case balance is mostly a moot point.

Jump back to quoted post30 Jan 2016, 23:49 PMCaptain QQ

I was specifically referring to KT which almost always has at least one panther around it.

It becomes So important for the entire engagement to happen on your terms. You have to have cons around to snare but they have to wait till the right moment or they waste their nades. Best I've found is mark target, tulips, at nade, typhoon. This way vision will be guaranteed for at least a little bit.

I just haven't been using mark target commanders lately as I have been falling in love with the kv2 all over again. All it needs is a real vet 1 ability and I would want nothing more OR LESS from it.

YOU HEAR ME RELIC! DON'T YOU DARE MAKE IT TAKE MORE THAN A LAUGHABLE DAMAGE FROM HT ROCKET ARTY!