Hey guys, I created this thread so that we can look for ways to counter the new OKW in 2v2s and up.
Cookiez and I have been experimenting with a build, which is pretty cheese, but seems to work all right.
Both players go Calliope Commander.
Player 1:
Rifle
Rifle
Rifle
LT
MG
CPT
ATG
M5 HT
M20 (for mines)
2 Calliopes
MJR
Jacksons
Player 2:
Rifle
Rifle
Rifle
Rifle (Optional)
CPT
Pak Howie
ATG
Pak Howie (If possible
Stuart (if fighting heavy mech build)
3 Calliopes
MJR
Jacksons
USF vs. OKW December Patch
4 Dec 2015, 02:26 AM
#1
4 
Posts: 1194 | Subs: 1
4 Dec 2015, 02:34 AM
#2
Posts: 322
Zookie got buffed, and it is needed more than ever. At least one unit needs to be dedicated to zooks. RM or RE, your choice.
Brummbar is very powerful
4 Dec 2015, 08:15 AM
#3
Posts: 3602 | Subs: 1
How is the matchup M15 vs Luchs now that Luch penetration has come from 25 to 20.
I have the impression going T2 is the wrong decision vs OKW. Better having an early M15+zook.
My idea is blob control is more important than hard-countering the Luch, if you micro your M15 well it can keep it at bay and be lucky with a couple of zook shots.
I have the impression going T2 is the wrong decision vs OKW. Better having an early M15+zook.
My idea is blob control is more important than hard-countering the Luch, if you micro your M15 well it can keep it at bay and be lucky with a couple of zook shots.
4 Dec 2015, 09:23 AM
#4
4 Posts: 1194 | Subs: 1
How is the matchup M15 vs Luchs now that Luch penetration has come from 25 to 20.
I have the impression going T2 is the wrong decision vs OKW. Better having an early M15+zook.
My idea is blob control is more important than hard-countering the Luch, if you micro your M15 well it can keep it at bay and be lucky with a couple of zook shots.
M15 doesn't cut it, the autocannon just doesn't have enough pen (plus the luchs still pens it at 15 armor).
T2 works because pak howies can help put the pressure on OKW forward BHQ builds and Ostheer MG spam, until you can get a forward retreat point up.
Indirect fire is the name of the game I find, as it is the best way to avoid bleeding vs. volks and later obers.
4 Dec 2015, 13:55 PM
#5
5 Posts: 104
I'm going to dust off the old double M15 build. Two of them together can beat a luchs and can beat a puma. Problem is puma can just outrange them, but with more access to adequate mines now baiting is easier.
Window of opportunity is much better now that jpIV is harder to get.
Window of opportunity is much better now that jpIV is harder to get.
4 Dec 2015, 13:58 PM
#6
Posts: 732
I would get m20 every game vs OKW. Still best shock unit. Killing those enoying capping kubles. Free zook. M20 mines instakill all OKW light vehicles. If OKW player loses luchs instantly hes done.
4 Dec 2015, 16:02 PM
#7
Posts: 1890 | Subs: 1
I would get m20 every game vs OKW. Still best shock unit. Killing those enoying capping kubles. Free zook. M20 mines instakill all OKW light vehicles. If OKW player loses luchs instantly hes done.
Nice theory crafting but I suggest you play the current patch more.
So far I've found that the current 100% Munitions means that Shreks appear much quicker and limits the window of shock value for M20 and/or Stuart. Popping out crew against Luchs is akin to suicide and you're relying on luck that he hits mine, which depending on map can be unlikely. Unless you know he went Battlegroup HQ first I'd be extremely wary of going LT as it stands.
4 Dec 2015, 17:50 PM
#8
1 
Posts: 3052 | Subs: 15
Double Officer tech 50 cals for volks blobberino into calliope spam
Late M20(cuz da float is real with 2x officers into calliope) to mine flanks and protect 640!!! hitpoint calliope from 100% income tank spam swarms late game. Use calliope to win attrition.
. Until the axis fanbois call for nerf of calliope. then 2x usf is certainly fucked with no lube and a sand paper condom vs 2x okw. just like old times ;-)
Late M20(cuz da float is real with 2x officers into calliope) to mine flanks and protect 640!!! hitpoint calliope from 100% income tank spam swarms late game. Use calliope to win attrition.
. Until the axis fanbois call for nerf of calliope. then 2x usf is certainly fucked with no lube and a sand paper condom vs 2x okw. just like old times ;-)
4 Dec 2015, 21:16 PM
#9
Posts: 1604 | Subs: 3
Keep your rifles together in early game, with Kübel suppression gone you can be pretty aggressive in early game.
If you need to know stats of certain unit: http://stat.coh2.hu
Which faction is OP and which is UP? Check it out here
Tips for beginners and wannabe pro's
Which faction is OP and which is UP? Check it out here
Tips for beginners and wannabe pro's
5 Dec 2015, 01:46 AM
#10
Posts: 1891
What nobodies said yet is that the lack of a suppressive Kubel for the OKW means you can keep your rifles together early game and wreck them with the firepower of rifles. It's not outlandish to dominate both fuels, and force them to tech BHQ to minimize bleed and get a flak track out. At this point if you get an M15 out, gg.
TL;DR: win in the first 5 minutes.
TL;DR: win in the first 5 minutes.
The Fascisti Will Pay.
5 Dec 2015, 03:42 AM
#11
Posts: 315
No 'zook/bar upgrade?
5 Dec 2015, 08:27 AM
#12
4 Posts: 1194 | Subs: 1
No 'zook/bar upgrade?
Well, when you go for the calliope doctrine, you hve access to M1919s, which are quite potent.
I have found that bazookas are quite effective this patch, however, and would recommend them if you went LT tier and need AT before you can get your captain.
6 Dec 2015, 03:25 AM
#13
Posts: 196
Keep your rifles together in early game, with Kübel suppression gone you can be pretty aggressive in early game.
Except now you won't be facing said kubels, they'll be circumventing your troops capping and disconnecting your resources while you try to fight battles both in your rear (kubels) and in the front.
Kubels in this patch, played by people with experience, are by far the most OP element of OKW, denying allies resources and splitting their attention.
For those saying that this is makes up for the lack of suppression, i say BS. First there are 2 doctrinal choices that give OKW MGs, secondly, they are no longer handicapped by resources, so teching is no longer an issue and to top it off their base infantry has been buffed. Suppression is useful but by no means game breaking if you don't have it.
7 Dec 2015, 00:51 AM
#14
Posts: 1891
Watching Sprice play, he went 2 RE, ambulance, 2 rifle, Captain, BARfinder.
Took important buildings with REs, then immediately made a FHQ with ambulance. Rifles provided oomph and defended/attacked flanks. Captain and some zooks detered luchs.
What I learned:
IMO now that OKW starts with 10 fuel and REs dps has been buffed you can easily take lots of territory and defend it against squishy t0 OKW infantry, and Kubel. I also think that good usage of .50 cals, bazookas, and light vehicles of your choice can counter everything the OKW can throw at you until T3 goes up.
Also, fast ambulance to important urban areas is valid as long as you either mine, or barb wire points of possible Falkimjager or JLI infiltration.
Took important buildings with REs, then immediately made a FHQ with ambulance. Rifles provided oomph and defended/attacked flanks. Captain and some zooks detered luchs.
What I learned:
IMO now that OKW starts with 10 fuel and REs dps has been buffed you can easily take lots of territory and defend it against squishy t0 OKW infantry, and Kubel. I also think that good usage of .50 cals, bazookas, and light vehicles of your choice can counter everything the OKW can throw at you until T3 goes up.
Also, fast ambulance to important urban areas is valid as long as you either mine, or barb wire points of possible Falkimjager or JLI infiltration.
The Fascisti Will Pay.
7 Dec 2015, 07:41 AM
#15
Posts: 174
By the time you have six Calliopes on the field w/ only a few 57 MMs and Captain for AT, and no mines, aren't you pretty vulnerable to Panthers?
7 Dec 2015, 08:58 AM
#16
4 Posts: 1194 | Subs: 1
By the time you have six Calliopes on the field w/ only a few 57 MMs and Captain for AT, and no mines, aren't you pretty vulnerable to Panthers?
You are, thats why you usually want m20 mines all over the place to punish overextentions.
Oh, sorry, forgot to list the M20 in the OP XD
7 Dec 2015, 23:31 PM
#17
Posts: 97
This is very similar to the Dusty/Lemon strat around infantry company. Except sub in calliopes for priests. I like mines, but my luck some dumb infantry squad would run them over long before a tank. I think I'd get better AT deterrence by investing my muni into zook/1919 squads.
7 Dec 2015, 23:52 PM
#18
1 Posts: 3052 | Subs: 15
This is very similar to the Dusty/Lemon strat around infantry company. Except sub in calliopes for priests. I like mines, but my luck some dumb infantry squad would run them over long before a tank. I think I'd get better AT deterrence by investing my muni into zook/1919 squads.
Zook can't stop panthers at all unfortunately, they barely stop the OKW p4...
this would portably be way better if one of us went heavy cav and trhe other went calliopes, the former planting mines on the base entrances so calliopes have a place to retreat to.
8 Dec 2015, 07:20 AM
#19
4 Posts: 6
Have you tried this with USF/Soviets. Using something like tank hunter tactics for a mine substitute, and Katyusha for a weak calliope substitute?
Edit: I don't really own Tank hunter tactics for the soviets, so I don't really know how the mine works. Does it detonate off infantry?
Edit: I don't really own Tank hunter tactics for the soviets, so I don't really know how the mine works. Does it detonate off infantry?
8 Dec 2015, 07:34 AM
#20
1 Posts: 3052 | Subs: 15
Edit: I don't really own Tank hunter tactics for the soviets, so I don't really know how the mine works. Does it detonate off infantry?
The dank hunter doctrine one is like a teller that explodes like an S-mine and stuns tanks. doesnt blow up infantry, even though defensive community tactics has a mine that blows up both vehicles and infantry, though it kinda sucks vs tanks.
Have you tried this with USF/Soviets. Using something like tank hunter tactics for a mine substitute, and Katyusha for a weak calliope substitute?
the thing with me and commash is we simply dont consider Brits or soviets when thinking of stuff..Strictly double USF.
Which makes finding solutions for stuff like protecting calliope spam against panther blobs really.....interesting.
sure..the EASY way we could probably just go 1x usf 1x brits one goes calliopes other goes fireflies and mines or something, or get a soviet teammate with katyusha and IS2....but that's easy.
and nothing good ever came easy.
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