LEIG change

After last patch Relic nerf a leigt / pack howietzer , but it was nerf in bad direction - they added only artificial micro tax nothing else.

I think they should revert changes they made and only think they need is to remove supresion and give them ability after they hit vet 1.

ABILITY - veteran crews are able to operate their veapons more effectively. They can fire 2 shots , on in high angel and one direct shot. These 2 shots will land at same place in almost same time whitch will scare nfantry and supress them (actually there are 2 ways how you can hit 1 object , the longer one - higher angle) and the shorter way - lower angle.

This ability cost 20 munny it is skillshot (but no precision strike , so it cannot wipe squads)and will pin if infantry is hit.

It would be fine if the suppression would work like the barrage of the bofors and a slight reduction of accuracy would also be nice.
Atm both isg´s are just annoying to play against.
The change to autoface changed nothing - a-moving works just fine imo it can stay that way.

After last patch Relic nerf a leigt / pack howietzer , but it was nerf in bad direction - they added only artificial micro tax nothing else.

I think they should revert changes they made and only think they need is to remove supresion and give them ability after they hit vet 1.

ABILITY - veteran crews are able to operate their veapons more effectively. They can fire 2 shots , on in high angel and one direct shot. These 2 shots will land at same place in almost same time whitch will scare nfantry and supress them (actually there are 2 ways how you can hit 1 object , the longer one - higher angle) and the shorter way - lower angle.

This ability cost 20 munny it is skillshot (but no precision strike , so it cannot wipe squads)and will pin if infantry is hit.

if we change the skill shot to an ability that yields a little suppression and not make the squad that is hit pinned, we have a deal.

I am all for removing suppression since it is kind of unfair a RNG based unit can win you engagements when you would normally lose. I do think the ISG needs to be better against garrisons though since going Stuka for anti-garrison support in 1v1 is dangerous since it delays OKW's expensive tier 3 units leaving you vulnerable to armor unless you go JPIV or Puma with Raketens. The ISG should be a tool for countering a defensive playstyle. On some maps with sturdy garrisons ISG currently struggles. The ISG should soft counter Static Infantry, Support Weapons, and garrisons.

After playing on both sides of its fire I must say that I rally like what relic did with ISGs recently. With suppression but without auto face the unit function as kind of more expensive and less reliable mg. It cannot stop rushing squads any more, it also does only minimal damage so full hp squads are safe. You need to face it in correct direction so you can't support multiple directions and you have to choose which engagement you want to support with that expensive unit. It means you will win that one, but you have no forces for other engagements.

To make it simple: it is standard coh position based unit, not abnomination like pak walls or blobs, just a unit like single pak or single mg you need to carefully position to support engagement you want.

It is also worth mentioning that right now it is not worth to build more than one unless you face brit emplacements. In many cases it is not even worth to get one of them, that doesnt mean they are op, means they are ballanced.

After playing on both sides of its fire I must say that I rally like what relic did with ISGs recently. With suppression but without auto face the unit function as kind of more expensive and less reliable mg. It cannot stop rushing squads any more, it also does only minimal damage so full hp squads are safe. You need to face it in correct direction so you can't support multiple directions and you have to choose which engagement you want to support with that expensive unit. It means you will win that one, but you have no forces for other engagements.

To make it simple: it is standard coh position based unit, not abnomination like pak walls or blobs, just a unit like single pak or single mg you need to carefully position to support engagement you want.

It is also worth mentioning that right now it is not worth to build more than one unless you face brit emplacements. In many cases it is not even worth to get one of them, that doesnt mean they are op, means they are ballanced.

Give it number 1.

When you see enym unit press 1 and attack enemy unit. This is all you need to do. And it cant get flanked like mg 42 can because it is howitzer that is in front of You shall not move zone covered by flakhq

Give it number 1.

When you see enym unit press 1 and attack enemy unit. This is all you need to do. And it cant get flanked like mg 42 can because it is howitzer that is in front of You shall not move zone covered by flakhq

Well, that would mean I dont see multiple units all the time, which is bullshit, or your algorithm doesnt work To work even on half of the map, especially by using it the way you describe, the unit cant stay in one place, it just doesnt have enough range. LeIG has easier time with it but the statement is just as true as in pack case. Means it can be flanked, it can be killed and it can be stolen. Ofc it is not getting as overextended as mg usually is but it also has no retreat button. It works the same way as AT-gun just against infantry not tanks, really easy to understand.

Also, the most important change is not that you have to face it, but that it is not sniping moving targets any more.

Well, that would mean I dont see multiple units all the time, which is bullshit, or your algorithm doesnt work To work even on half of the map, especially by using it the way you describe, the unit cant stay in one place, it just doesnt have enough range. LeIG has easier time with it but the statement is just as true as in pack case. Means it can be flanked, it can be killed and it can be stolen. Ofc it is not getting as overextended as mg usually is but it also has no retreat button. It works the same way as AT-gun just against infantry not tanks, really easy to understand.

Also, the most important change is not that you have to face it, but that it is not sniping moving targets any more.

In 1vs1 im able to put my flak to cover my fuel and cut off and my leigt to be albe to attack his cut off , defend my territory and have it not to far flak hq so i can always sofltretreat with it.

I dont know if we are talking about same gmae mode , but in 1vs1 it is still leave and forgot unit. Now you just need to give it control ground and attack most valuable unit with it

Just remove the suppresion and lower the accuracy a little bit. Thats all I'd like to see.

Also supression is I win combat button because if unit get supressed it cant fire back effectively and get always defeated (volks vs supressed rifles for example)

Also supression is I win combat button because if unit get supressed it cant fire back effectively and get always defeated (volks vs supressed rifles for example)

It is entirely true. It is one 235 mp unit with one 430 mp unit against a one 280mp unit. Sounds like a won engagement to me. Funny part is that in such engagement rifles will retreat after getting suppressed with no losses, while volks will loose models before LeIG manages to even hit.

The whole catch is that this is very expensive unit that doesnt even bleed your opponent much, only suppresses him and it is very expensive. Meaning usf have numerical advantage and can attack from multiple directions to negate its effect. This unit also pretty bad if you attack due to inability to retreat if it gets flanked. That means you are bound to defence once you buy it.

What is also really important is that for the time you spend waiting to get 430mp for it you are very weak and good opponent will use it to his advantage to cap a map or attack hard points.

Also supression is I win combat button because if unit get supressed it cant fire back effectively and get always defeated (volks vs supressed rifles for example)

Suppression isn't the problem, having it parked next to your healing + flak trucks is the problem.

Imo, both pak Howi and LIEG should have a range decrease by half (50 to 60 range max) and a retreat button.

After last patch Relic nerf a leigt / pack howietzer , but it was nerf in bad direction - they added only artificial micro tax nothing else.

Suppression Amount reduced from 0.3 to 0.22 <- suppression nerf
Damage profile reduced from 0.25/0.5/1/ to 0.2/0.4/1 <- damage nerf except in the exact center of the aoe
Projectile lowest angel increased from 10 to 35 <- projectile time to impact nerf
Vet 1 Range bonus reduced from 15% to 5% <- range nerf
No Longer can auto face <- micro tax

I wouldn't say it's nothing else, m8. I count 4 nerfs plus micro tax.

Many players agree with me that supresion is I win button on this unit.

Yes it is 440 MP + 235 vs 280 but at the rifles retreat and then you can once agains defeat some other rifles with it. I agree about it was nerfed , but it was nerf in bad direction. Revert it to previous (before OP) changes and remove supression add supressive barage and this unit wont be UP or OP , it will be effective support gun

Just remove suppression.

Suppression isn't the problem, having it parked next to your healing + flak trucks is the problem.

Imo, both pak Howi and LIEG should have a range decrease by half (50 to 60 range max) and a retreat button.

If you give it retreat button you will never be able to kill it or steal it.

Suppression is still the biggest problem with this unit because it rarely ever misses. Early to mid game this is not so much an issue since you can move units around and cap on circle edge. But late game once you have multiple units to micro you just end up continuously retreating which if you only go 3 rifles means you are regularly down on units.

Accuracy needs to drop off at mid to long range. Certain maps allow ISG to just suppress units all over map and only require small amount of micro to aim the gun. I have no problem with it doing damage (although I don't agree with it squad wiping) but it still requires little risk at the moment.

Its still cancer......

Maybe give it two kinds of ammo, one is fragmentation and one is HE, one suppresses a lot but doesn't deal too much dmg (Let's say 25% dmg from the current), and the other ammo would deal a shit ton of dmg but wouldn't suppress at all

This would force people to choose between kills and suppression, since the suppression isn't the problem, the problem is killing + suppression combo

Maybe give it two kinds of ammo, one is fragmentation and one is HE, one suppresses a lot but doesn't deal too much dmg (Let's say 25% dmg from the current), and the other ammo would deal a shit ton of dmg but wouldn't suppress at all

This would force people to choose between kills and suppression, since the suppression isn't the problem, the problem is killing + suppression combo

Suppression is the problem. Even if you remove damage any nearby squad will keep the suppressed squad pinned meaning automatic retreat.

Take Langres for example. Isg can basically sit just outside base and cover 2 vps, fuel and ammo point and almost never be at risk. The constant pin retreat routine not only drags games out but makes them incredibly frustrating.

Isg should be effective vs buildings, weapon teams, emplacements and blobs. Not against sole squads moving across map.

After playing several more games as and versus OKW I must say the LeIG is still powerful. Not like before but I feel you get too much for cost. It still suppresses and pretty frequently instapins. The "micro tax" so many people mentioned isn't really a factor, even on my level of play, which is nothing to write home about.

Maybe it is not overpowered. Maybe it's a different problem, one of playstyle. In my opinion, it is unfair that a single unit dictates how to play with and against a faction, which is what 1v1s come down to. That is supposed to be a support gun, and instead we have the entire faction supporting the LeIGs which pick a chunk of the map to "support", i.e. cause consistent, reliable manpower bleed and pins every several seconds.

Ostheer revolves around the MG42 support, and it is executed masterfully in-game. There is so much you can do to counterplay an MG42 (smoke and flank, anyone? ) . Not much you can do versus a LeIG except abandon a part of the map or make a direct attack on it, which OKW players of course have learned to expect and turn to their advantage.

Imba or not, LeIG is still a crutch that prevents the rest of the faction from being evaluated fairly and maybe even buffed, it's the same issue with Rifle Company. Remove Rifle Company for two weeks and you would see 1v1 win rate for USF plummet.